Interview With Kevin Deverell & Photo Of Paul Kelly
Kevin Deverell and I spoke yesterday for 45 minutes. Kevin was serving in the US Navy aboard the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal when his father died.
This is a true crime discussion forum. The whole point is to discuss details and find out the truth. The real story and the back-story so to speak. The visitors and posters at this blog feel compassion for the departed, because we have all had someone close to us lost to drugs, crime, or loved ones who got mixed up with the wrong crowd. In Wonderland, the truth about those involved was elusive in this case from the very beginning. It is nice to finally begin to find out the truth. In the decades since the 80s, some of the key figures (Thorson, Schiller) have even changed their stories somewhat. Erroneous details, exaggerations and accusations have consistently been thrown around by the media, sensationalized TV shows and so on. Thus, it is nice to start finding out the truth and setting the record straight. Thanks to Nils and Kevin, Jill Nelson and blog contributors for helping me out in this arena. The goal of this blog from the beginning was to gain exposure, through genuine discussion with key people, and possibly do a book or “real” documentary. If you’re new here, use the Search button because some of the highlights include contributions from Holmes author, Jill C. Nelson, Nils Grevillius, Julia Negron (ex-wife of Three Dog Night singer, Chuck), Lee who worked at the Starwood and knew Eddie Nash. There is also the close family friend of Tracy McCourt, the widow of Ron Launius’ friend, Carroll Evan Sherrill, among others. Go to Podcasts in the drop down menu if you want to listen to my interview from last year with Wonderland investigator and private eye, Nils Grevillius. Thanks for stopping by, but please don’t leave comments in anger or use curse words.
Stream the interview here:
Play or Download the mp3 audio file here:
Also included is a photo of Billy Deverell and Paul Kelly, circa 1960s. Billy was 27 years old in this photo. Thanks again, Kevin!
Billy Deverell and Paul Kelly
Patrick Engeleiter, 
Lorraine S Herrin, and 18 others are discussing. 
Patrick Engeleiter 10:46 pm on April 15, 2021 Permalink |
I am still looking for any info on Paul Kelly or Rico Vlick. There is nothing online about either guy outside of this website. I can’t even find court cases or testimony from Paul Kelly on any case, same with Rico Vlick. I was able to find his case with Rosemary McKee but not much nor the outcome. He passed away in a nursing home in Vegas. I tracked down the home and spoke to nurses who knew him. Said he was quiet, never had one visitor in 3 years. Died with no funeral nor headstone. He is in a unmarked grave. I’ve done background on Rosemary and get nothing, No relatives, children, nothing. People associated with Rico and Rose are dying, same with Wonderland, the associates or people who would and could give us great info for a movie or documentary want nothing to do with this case of these people. Anyone who knew Paul Kelly, Rosemary McKee, Bill “Rico”Vlick please reach out. Patrick E 414-306-1667-text me or email-patricke@efreightusa.com
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John 6:56 am on April 16, 2021 Permalink |
Thanks Patrick.
We also lost Cherokee Hershman, an old NoCal drug buddy of Ron’s. He later cleaned up his act and became a trucker and grandpa.
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Lorraine S Herrin 6:34 pm on November 22, 2020 Permalink |
Well I agree on some and I gotta say Bullshit on other parts of it!! Well I may have been raised by one if not a couple of em!
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@oglepke via Twitter.com 8:46 am on July 11, 2014 Permalink |
I too grew up around this time, did odd jobs around Starwood lived 1321 n. LAUREL ave. and all through Hollywood it’was a different time, black and white no in between if you weren’t an erner you weren’t part of any scene the drugs were different back then and so was the outcome when you go up agenist anyone with influence or power, like a drug power will get you took out the game as it did for ANYONE who went to Nash’s spot expecting a different out come, my best friend ended up in pieces, i kept myself Respectful and humble and maybe that’s why I’m still living I learned you never F^%#K with a mans #1 Money, #2 drugs, #3 pussy, and #4 manhood, period as in the case of the WONDERLAND gang that wasn’t the case and like any addict 1 is too many and a 1,000 just a tease, my heart goes out to the families who suffered for we as parents never want to see our beloved children stuck in a WONDERLAND TRAP HOUSE. Been there done that!!! Trust me. I’m also a writer and write on living within the streets of LOS ANGELES HOLLYWOOD addicted not only to the drugs, but to the whole lifestyles. The thing that pulls me in a different direction is I know if I was to hit someone as big as Nash, not even a thought would occur in my twisted thinking!! I would of made sure I burryed myself away where I would of panicked myself to the surface as any drug use plays a roll to where that much stash would have ANYONE not making good choices, I too like most am intreged by LAUREL CYN KIRKWOOD. LOOKOUT MTN. Area,” I was hiking when I was young and came accross a decomposed body up off of Kirkwood before you hit the CYN store me and another kid we were dirt bike riding bikes, the police said the person was shooting dope and ODed on the spot, such a horrible smell. I think it was early 70s way before anything up the way. It left me with a feeling that life isn’t taken seriously in those hills I grew up in partied in it always left me with a feeling I still hold on to today a fear that if I’m not on my pees and Q’s life can be snatched away eaither by my own hands or by another’s. Good piece john keep us posted I would diffitnitly like to read more.., I’m also on twitter @oglepke an original HOLLYWOOD REBEL. 1963 2014
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mark c 6:24 pm on April 17, 2014 Permalink |
Kevin Deverell sound’s like a very nice person.
Been a pleasure just listen to him.
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John 8:51 am on March 18, 2014 Permalink |
I just finished reading Chuck Negron’s book, 3 Dog Nightmare. Kevin sent me a copy. The Wonderland section is brief, but very telling. What Chuck says about Joy and Billy backs up what Kevin said in a way. Joy was owed by just about everyone, even Chuck and Julia Negron. Thus, Billy was collecting for her, shortly after they began dating. Kevin said to me this past weekend “You did not want to owe Billy Deverell money”. Before Billy was around, one of Joy’s suppliers named Jack had slapped around Joy because of money that Chuck and some others owed.
Chuck would trade Joy for antique furniture, jewelry, etc. Chuck was also arrested twice while driving away from Joy’s apartment in Brentwood. She must have been watched for some time. One time, Julia picked up Chuck at Joy’s because Chuck was in no condition to drive. Julia fell asleep and they got into a bad car wreck. Chuck also says in the book that Fat Howard shot up his house over an unpaid drug debt. Chuck did a counter-threat to Fat Howard Cook, and I guess it scared him and Cook told Joy to tell Chuck that don’t worry, we’re all square. Although delinquent on debts, Chuck didn’t take any crap, and once burned up a dealer’s garage who had taken his Benz.
The Wonderland chapter is very brief but awesome. The only mistake was saying Billy was an ex-con, which he was not. Chuck called Holmes a “worn out loser” or something like that and said he was friends with all 4 people who died that night. He would have been there but was sleeping off a dopesick day. The guys at the house must have thought he would stop by, thus the Three Dog Night album “Harmony” was out, and on the turntable, according to the crime scene.
I was hoping Chuck would mention Bill “Ricco” Vlick but he never did.
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localarts 10:42 am on March 19, 2014 Permalink |
Great stuff. I wonder if Joy kept a ledger for accounts receivable & accounts payable? I’m only half kidding but you would think Joy or Billy would have kept some kind of record of who owed what. Even though what they were doing was illegal, it was in essence a business.
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Kevin 5:42 pm on March 19, 2014 Permalink |
Wow John well I guess I could’ve got my question answered by coming to this blog site I didn’t realize this is going to take me days to go through I bet I could answer a lot of questions and get a lot of questions answered also good job
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Kevin 5:47 pm on March 19, 2014 Permalink
I didn’t know the Wonderland crew had such a following I guess my dad’s a little mini celebrity too bad he had to die to acquire it
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Bobby 2:14 am on March 24, 2014 Permalink |
Would LOVE to read that Wonderland chapter! Any chance you could put a scan of it up on this here blog?.. or perhaps some of the highlights?… We love you long time..;)
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Jill C. Nelson 1:44 pm on March 16, 2014 Permalink |
“In his investigation he found that Glickman’s wife may have given Holmes a ride home that fateful morning. Thanks for the lead, maybe it will open up some channels!”
John, this is information Tom Lange touched on briefly when we spoke with him. We didn’t use it verbatim in the book because it couldn’t be confirmed. He said he believed they (LAPD) located the car eventually, that had dropped Holmes off at Sharon’s or at Bill Amerson’s since both claimed on the record that John arrived at their homes during the early hours on July 1st. The distance between Glenwood and Sherman Oaks is not exactly a hop, skip, and a jump away — it’s approximately eleven miles — so it’s hard to imagine that Holmes arrived at both doorsteps even if he’d had a lift, unless he cloned himself. We asked Lange about the car when it was found, did it have blood in the interior. Lange couldn’t recall or wasn’t certain. He couldn’t commit either way.
The following are direct quotes from Tom Lange extracted from our September 2007 interview in which he references Dottie Glickman, Scott Thorson, Holmes and Nash. Some of it might be recycled information for readers, some of it not.
Tom Lange: “We had other witnesses too. We had Hal Glickman’s wife, who is also deceased, who is the one that supposedly drove the killers to the house. She was in hiding, you know, and there was a big rigamarole over that. She was in hiding and she died, too. Dottie Glickman was her name. We looked for the car and we spent hundreds and hundreds of man hours over the years on this thing. We found phony leads. She never really gave us specifics.”
Tom Lange: “We had Thorson’s car up at Nash’s house right after the murders. He said he overheard Diles beat up John. There’s always a little bit of truth to what someone says. When they’re impeached how much of what they say is true? How much do they embellish their statement for this reason or that reason? Books are written on that subject.”
Tom Lange: “The pressure was on John. We would have rather not filed a murder charge against John. We wanted him as a witness, but he would have to have been completely forthcoming. Say ‘Yes, I opened the door, I knew what they were going to do.’ And if you were in fear of your life, which he probably was, then that’s what you say. ‘I saw them go to the victims and I saw them beat the victims and they made me take some whacks, I had blood on me. I went to Sharon’s house and I went to Amerson’s house,’ wherever he went. ‘This is what I did and this is what I did with the clothing.’ He needed to make a bold confession, not little admissions where he ended up playing a game. If he did that, then he would have been a witness and given immunity. But instead he played the game. Therefore, we had to put this so-called domino theory into effect to pressure him.”
Tom Lange: “Nash was a suspect and certainly the motive was very strong and we’d done a background on all these people. We were finding out that Nash had been very insulated in the city for all these years, like the Teflon Don thing. Nobody could ever nail him. And there was a reason for that. You had political corruption, and you had police corruption, and he was a very insulated individual. This was rampant. That’s why he walked for so many years, and basically, he got away with anything he wanted. So, he was a hard nut to crack.
Of course, then we found out that the feds were investigating him and there were dirty feds involved. Corrupt feds. They had come to our department behind our back and said that we were dirty and we were in bed with Ed Nash — forcing our department to investigate us when they were the ones that were involved — thereby derailing the investigation for a number of years. Which is exactly what they wanted to do.”
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localarts 3:06 pm on March 17, 2014 Permalink |
Nils Grevillius said Dottie Glickman gave Holmes a ride as well. You know you’re dealing with a very, very big fish (Nash) when everybody either goes into hiding or wants witness protection.
I remember I once said on this blog, Nash’s power was far reaching and Jill’s quote from Lange would seem to support this plus Nils thought the more fascinating aspect about the whole thing was what appeared to be a cover up, it would sure seem that way.
It would be interesting to know just how far up the ladder this went?
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John 3:11 pm on March 17, 2014 Permalink |
Thanks Jill. Amazing. Those tapes belong in the Smithsonian right near the 75 Granada and John & Sharon’s Malibu. This seemingly soft corruption by the cops or powers that be is underrated / understated. I’m sure there was more payola floating around from Ed to some judges or cops. I doubt he was slipping under the radar because he buying drinks and dinner for these people.
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kdimmick 12:19 am on March 14, 2014 Permalink |
Is Paul Kelly still alive?
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John 5:49 am on March 14, 2014 Permalink |
Ken, nobody really knows. He’s be about 70+ now if he was alive.
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Ken D. 3:17 am on March 15, 2014 Permalink
John,
Here is a tidbit of information that I do not know if you are aware of if it is true…
Back when the movie WONDERLAND came out Lions Gate had a discussion board that a lot of people used to post at but it eventually got shut down due to all the crap that went on there. Anyway…..There was a lady from Canada who posted there.She was a painter by the name of Denise LafFrance who was planning to write and illustrate with her portraits of porn people a coffee table type book about the golden age of porn. She went on a trip to L.A. in order to meet a lot of the old time porn performers. She was wired in pretty tight with Cass Paley and he was making introductions to of her to people like Bob Chinn,Bill Margold etc…. After she got back from her trip I asked her how it went and what all she did while she was there and she related an interesting visit that she took with Bill Amerson to Glickman’s bail bond office there in L.A.. Glickman regaled her with old stories about Eddie Nash and also mentioned that an old friend of Ron Launius’s worked there with him but was not in at the time…..that friend of Launius’s was Paul Kelly. She said that her and Bill Amerson waited awhile for Kelly to get back but they had to leave when he hadn’t shown up after awhile so she never did actually meet him.
Do you by any chance know anything about a Hal Glickman/Paul Kelly connection?
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John 7:26 am on March 15, 2014 Permalink
I will ask Nils about Hal Glickman, if he is still around and such. In his investigation he found that Glickman’s wife may have given Holmes a ride home that fateful morning. Thanks for the lead, maybe it will open up some channels!
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Mike 11:55 pm on March 13, 2014 Permalink |
Interestingly you can hear a hawk calling loudly on one of the Wonderland walk-through vids on YouTube.
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John 4:41 pm on March 13, 2014 Permalink |
John Holmes died on this date in 1988. 3-13.
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localarts 5:25 pm on March 13, 2014 Permalink |
Yes, and he took alot of secrets with him. Anyone willing to speculate where Holmes is spending his days now?
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swrworkingman 12:55 pm on March 11, 2014 Permalink |
I kind of feel sorry for the actor who had the role as Tracy in Wonderland, if it is true they wrote him more or less out of the movie because of the real Tracy being a pain in the ass 😉
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John 1:01 pm on March 11, 2014 Permalink |
You mean George Leonardopoulos? LOL. Yes, his career also took a nosedive after the movie. He appeared in very little and also suffered a setback LOL
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swrworkingman 1:05 pm on March 11, 2014 Permalink
Its all McCourts fault, haha
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Bobby 4:34 am on March 12, 2014 Permalink
..And what a terrible line and delivery too! Doesn’t he say something like “Sure thing boss!” as if he’s in a damn James Cagney gangster flick after one of the gang tells him he’s the wheelman. Makes we cringe whenever I see it. Almost as bad as that extra slapping his thigh to the music when Lind enters the house for the first time during the party scene. When you see how badly that guy is overacting it can never be unseen! LOL!
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dreamweaverjenn 5:36 am on March 12, 2014 Permalink
Every time I watch it I notice something like that, the thigh slapping or someone saying something cheesy…..
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dreamweaverjenn 5:53 pm on March 10, 2014 Permalink |
Hey Bonnie, sent him a message ❤
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Tori 11:42 am on March 10, 2014 Permalink |
Does kevin live in Orange County? Didn’t u say garden grove ?
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Tori 12:09 pm on March 10, 2014 Permalink |
My pops works for Bragg crane n rigging . They totally test randomly idk about back then. Like kevin said That kind of work there is no way you could be on drugs. Too dangerous.
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John 12:36 pm on March 10, 2014 Permalink |
I’m not sure where.
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Tori 2:08 pm on March 11, 2014 Permalink
John I showed my dad ur blog he loves it. He’s on it as we speak. He’s just as fascinated in wonderland as we are!He loves that song . Who’s song is it?!
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John 3:31 pm on March 11, 2014 Permalink
Bette Davis Eyes by Kim Carnes. It was the #1 song on the charts in June & July 1981.
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localarts 10:32 am on March 10, 2014 Permalink |
I wonder whatever became of those antique Colt dueling pistols? Even back in 81 they would have been worth a fortune.
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Darla 9:27 am on March 10, 2014 Permalink |
If Billy was under survallience , Why was that not a factor in catching his murderers?
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John 9:33 am on March 10, 2014 Permalink |
Hi Darla. I think the police were aware of things at the house but it was not being watched 100% of the time.
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Darla 9:47 am on March 10, 2014 Permalink
I knew him all my life the Good,the Bad and the Ugly, Growing up he wasn’t like what ppl are saying and honestly, the Movie I call ” Bullshit”
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localarts 5:47 pm on March 10, 2014 Permalink |
I think the house was under surveillance not Billy specifically. The police were keeping tabs on who was coming and going in order to build a case. Joy was potentially looking at doing time already.
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John 1:09 pm on March 11, 2014 Permalink
Yeah, the fuzz were probably checking out the house once in a while, but I doubt a team of narc’s were on the case full time.
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Darlene 6:49 pm on March 9, 2014 Permalink |
It was close to end of May I seen Billy a week before this all happened , Joy was the worse thing that ever happened to him
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localarts 3:11 pm on March 9, 2014 Permalink |
Fantastic as always! Without John’s dedication and drive, some of the mysteries surrounding the people and events that led up to the murders would still be unknowns. It sounds like Billy was just a regular guy.
Went to work, paid his bills, and raised a family then fell into drugs, unfortunately. The same thing can probably be said about Joy.
Without going into alot of detail, if you remove John Curtis Homes from the equation, it changes the course of everyone’s life forever. Including, Eddie Nash. And that’s a fact.
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dreamweaverjenn 4:21 pm on March 9, 2014 Permalink |
I agree!
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dreamweaverjenn 4:53 pm on March 9, 2014 Permalink |
Some asshole started shit with me on Facebook because I didn’t like his comments and the fact that he referred to himself as John Holmes. I asked if was also a sorry piece of shit and then it was on, lol. Sometimes I can’t keep my comments to myself and it gets me in trouble……Most of the time I try to be a very nice lady (My daughter’s saying “yeah, right, Mom.”
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Nils Grevillius 12:21 pm on March 9, 2014 Permalink |
Kevin is a good man and has my respect. I am glad the back story is included here, of real lives of real people. Good work, Weghorst.
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Bonnie Brae 11:43 am on March 9, 2014 Permalink |
Final comment. I agree with Dream. We have heard all the speculation. The newspapers made sure we knew about all the dirt that sensationalized the story. Thank you Kevin for showing us the other side of your dad and letting us see the human guy that some people are unable to grasp. Why the fascination? hmmm good question. Why are people so fascinated with Jack the Ripper, or Dahlia?
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swrworkingman 9:32 am on March 12, 2014 Permalink |
For me, the fascination has got to do with the lead pipes. Of course John’s double role and all, but the led pipes nails Nash as the stereotype godfather that he was, not only did he show no mercy, he wanted to send a message in the underworld of LA. Tom Lange points it out in the British documentary.
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John 10:00 am on March 12, 2014 Permalink
As bouncer at some of Nash’s clubs, Diles was known to wield a pipe fitted with a rubber bicycle handlebar grip to threaten unruly customers. He also chased a man from one of the clubs one time, emptying his gun at the man across 6 lanes of traffic at 2 in the afternoon. His brother, Sammy once pistol whipped the brother of a city councilman at the Kit Kat Club, for which he served 2 year I believe for assault.
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dreamweaverjenn 9:14 am on March 13, 2014 Permalink
Wow, these people were hard core. I can see Diles emptying his gun in broad daylight too and not EVEN worrying about it. Dang…..
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localarts 10:16 am on March 13, 2014 Permalink
I think Eddie Nash was the most dangerous person of all the people that been profiled on this blog. Eddie had a vast amount of resources available at his disposable. If I were to rank me:
1) Eddie Nash
2) Horace “Big Mac” McKenna
3) Ron Launius
4) John Curtis Holmes
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localarts 9:27 pm on March 15, 2014 Permalink |
John Holmes did far worse than Billy ever did.
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brian 1:46 pm on September 6, 2020 Permalink |
A lot of people are interested in true crime. That’s why books are labeled “true crime”. Its written on the book and there’s a true crime section in the book store.
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dreamweaverjenn 11:22 am on March 9, 2014 Permalink |
Awesome! Love this interview! Thanks John!
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Bonnie Brae 10:15 am on March 9, 2014 Permalink |
Cool interview. Thanks John. – I love when he asked why you were so interested in the story.
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Bonnie Brae 10:05 am on March 9, 2014 Permalink |
I love the story about the Hawk. So sweet.
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Bonnie Brae 9:59 am on March 9, 2014 Permalink |
Someone left a comment a while ago that we need to get a life. Could not agree more. At the same time it’s such a fascinating story.
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dreamweaverjenn 11:21 am on March 9, 2014 Permalink |
Ah, screw ’em! It is a fascinating story! There is so much more to these people then “they did drugs, they were bad criminals, they were murdered” the end. So, if we need to get a life, what were they doing on here as well??
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dreamweaverjenn 12:49 pm on March 9, 2014 Permalink
You’re right, it is.
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Eric B 1:33 am on March 12, 2014 Permalink |
Funny! 🙂 I was just checking this story on Facebook and my girlfriend peers over my shoulder and says, “GOOD GOD ARE YOU STILL READING THAT STUFF!??! THEY’RE ALL DEAD…” haha
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criticextraordinaire 9:53 am on March 9, 2014 Permalink |
Is Paul the guy who took a dump on Joy’s coffee table or something like that?
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John 7:59 am on March 14, 2014 Permalink |
I think that is what Kevin told me before, but it was a b-day cake. Paul must have been the life of the party.
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Bonnie Brae 9:50 am on March 9, 2014 Permalink |
Nils is the Man.
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criticextraordinaire 9:10 am on March 9, 2014 Permalink |
re: Billy’s 13 arrests. Would that not be public record? I’m pretty sure that info would be available to prove or disprove, at least the arrests and any possible convictions.
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John 8:27 am on March 10, 2014 Permalink |
While this is possible if you know someone, it’s pretty impossible to walk in or phone a police station or Sheriff’s office and say you want someone’s criminal records. Even if they are deceased. Even if you are family. Basically in this case, I guarantee that one cop told a reporter this number, and it was said once, and then got reprinted over and over again by the newspapers.
The Freedom of Information Act is a joke. Especially if the clerk is too lazy to even fulfill your request. I have numerous requests over a year old with the prison systems, military records people, a Sheriff’s dept, state police, etc. Civil service has gone downhill, worse than it ever was before. Even if you pay them their fee. Good luck.
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Bonnie Brae 10:46 am on March 10, 2014 Permalink
Hey Jenn – Friend me on Facebook – ask John how to find me.
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Bonnie Brae 10:53 am on March 10, 2014 Permalink
John – you make some damn good points.
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dreamweaverjenn 5:47 pm on March 10, 2014 Permalink
Oh no doubt…..I have personal experience with media taking one thing, blowing it waaaaaay out of proportion and spreading it everywhere…..
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localarts 4:24 pm on March 12, 2014 Permalink
Chris Cox statement somewhat dubunks Thorsons allegations about what happened to Holmes after Nash found out it was him who set up the robbery. I think Chris Cox said he heard that Nash had been robbed, and went up to Dona Lola to see Eddie. He said when he walked in the front door he saw John Holmes stand by the bar.
That’s a big contrast from Thorson’s account. “Diles burst thru the front door with Holmes by the back of the neck and marched him straight to the bedroom. Thorson said they beat the hell out of Holmes and walked out of the bedroom an hour later with Holmes by the back of the neck with one hand and a pipe in the other.
It’s like you were saying John, Thorson may have been just as big a liar as Holmes
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John 5:54 pm on March 12, 2014 Permalink
So according to Kevin and Nils, back in 2001 a 71 yr old Eddie Nash had a rough time at Terminal Island prison.
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