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  • John 9:50 am on May 3, 2018 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: bill deverrell, wonderland   

    Interview With Kevin DeVerrell 

    For those visitors and new arrivals who missed it…

    From March, 2014. (My SoundCloud homepage and main menu)

    Thanks again to Kevin for talking to me. It was great to meet him in 2016 when he came to Houston. Like many relatives of the victims in this tragedy, he went and made a great life for he and his family. I tip my cap…

  • John 10:39 am on March 14, 2018 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: Bob Souza, four on the floor, lange, , , wonderland   

    Malice In Wonderland 

    Malice in Wonderland by retired LAPD detectives, Tom Lange & Bob Souza is highly recommended. Scroll down to read more.

    I rarely do this, but here is another book recommendation:

    6200 Carbon Canyon Road – My Life as a Penthouse Pet

    by Terri Lenee Peake

    A rare look into the world of a distinct, and sexy slice of SoCal, 1980s style – Terri Lenee Peake tells her story as a young model living life amidst its struggles and good times with her beau, in what became a lost, and noirishly bygone era. A view into their life together at Tara, a fairytale castle in the canyon, and the surrounding and looming chaos. It is an amazing memoir that creates envy, awe, and fear – and that oft-misunderstood mistress, nostalgia.

    We don’t hear enough in print about folks like the lovely Lenee or her fiance whom she might’ve died with… Horace McKenna, who like any rich L.A. guy kept a pet tiger – and during their break-up in the late 80s was gunned down by a random, prototypical L.A. hustler; it was like out of a movie, and it later was part of one.

    Those who say art doesn’t imitate life, or vice-a-versa, hadn’t been to Lenee & Big Mac’s 40-acre horse ranch.

    Read more about Peake’s new book


    Here is the link to purchase the Tom Lange & Bob Souza book on Amazon, you won’t regret it.

    Here is the link to purchase the book on Amazon, you won’t regret it.


    This episode of a new true crime program looks interesting…. set your DVRs. Watch preview below, it airs on OXYGEN Fri 3/30 primetime.

    I hope this episode is not hijacked, and another glorified version of the other story. I hope there is mention of the real interesting people – those peripheral characters- slimy or not, each with individual motives… LA’s craziest criminals for the ages! and all those bad personal choices & decisions that in 1981 in Hollywood – could get you killed, the era in which this mayhem occurred was crazy… so I hope this episode is fresh and juicy.

    Thank you.

    • Michelle 3:21 pm on March 18, 2018 Permalink | Reply

      Is this the book that was originally to be called “Four on the floor@?

      • John 10:44 am on March 20, 2018 Permalink | Reply

        No, it’s 2 of the same gents, but a different effort altogether, decades later and a welcome surprise.

    • Bobby 7:17 pm on March 18, 2018 Permalink | Reply

      Great posts John, good to see the blog back in action. When it rains it pours!
      Your book looks riveting – can’t wait!

  • John 2:29 pm on December 23, 2016 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: , , wonderland   

    The Starwood Menu 

    The web site which hosted these images is no longer around, so I am posting these here for anyone interested. The food is named after bands of course. I am surprised to see that the band 707 was a Starwood staple. They had a couple of good, minor rock radio hits in the early 80’s, i.e., You might recall “Megaforce” sung by the great Kevin Chalfant.



    • Gayle 3:26 pm on December 23, 2016 Permalink | Reply

      The Starwood had great ‘Fear’ fries 🙂 and the club really enforced that ‘Two drink minimum’ policy! It only pertained when a well known band was headlining.

      • John 1:48 pm on January 10, 2017 Permalink | Reply

        Yes, and with Eddie as owner, I’m sure it was decent bar food all around. I don’t think that gastro-expert Ed would have let them serve slop to people, even though most of his cash at the Starwood was probably made from alcohol sales.

    • jimmy chicago 9:27 am on January 11, 2017 Permalink | Reply

      What are fear fries ? Is that something regional

  • John 11:46 am on November 7, 2016 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: thinking sideways, wonderland   

    The “Thinking Sideways” Wonderland Podcast 

    Today, you can listen to these folks talk about the case if you want. Click on John Holmes to go there…


  • John 5:19 am on November 19, 2015 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: , wonderland   

    Holmes Was Possessive, According To Sharon 

    At the time of their marriage in 1965, John was working as a candy processor at the Glendale “Candy Nips” factory (She told Mike Sager that he stirred vats of chocolate). Apparently, would not let Sharon meet his co-workers, and was extremely possessive – and she had to live and breathe for him alone.

    “Spent most of leisure time @ Old Zoo in Griffith Park or window shopping.” – The Old Zoo at Griffith Park.

    The public record shows Sharon living at these apartments in Glendale at the time of their marriage, which jibes with the story Sharon once told of looking out her window and seeing John pick flowers from the neighbors garden before their first date.

    Holmes had 3 lung collapses during 66-67.

    Also, if the couple had had children, we might not be talking about this at all.

    Their marriage – according to Sharon:

    From page 4 of Sharon's 9 page outline on John's life.

    From page 4 of Sharon’s 9 page outline on John’s life.

    • Gayle 11:41 pm on November 21, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      There are remnants of the old zoo still there, concrete structures and cages that housed the animals, Very eerie, but cool.

      • John 2:55 am on January 19, 2016 Permalink | Reply

        Cool. In the book the Onion Field, one of the cops early investigations included trolling the park to arrest gay guys wanting to hook up. Truly bizarre.

        • Gayle 12:24 am on January 26, 2016 Permalink

          That activity still goes on there, only it’s out in the open.

    • Jill Nelson 9:44 am on November 23, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      I’ve always found it curious Sharon claim that John was underage at the time of their marriage and that his mother had to give written consent. They were married on August 21,1965. John was 21 years of age.

    • localarts 2:48 pm on November 23, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      I thought Holmes mother had to give consent for her son to enter the army…

  • John 5:30 am on November 7, 2015 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: , , , wonderland   

    Belly Dancer Describes Atmosphere @ Nash's Club "Ali Baba's" 

    Kamala Almanzar, a professional bellydancer based in Los Angeles shares no holds barred memories, opinions & gossip of her 35 year dance career. http://www.kamaladance.com All photos belong to her.

    Ali Baba’s… it sounds terrible but I still want to go. I am trying to get in touch with Kamala, if you have info on this old club-restaurant, please post in the comments. Thanks.

    Ali Babas in Hollywood

    Here are some photos of Kamala on the dance floor and of the band performing at Ali Baba’s:

  • John 3:38 am on November 2, 2015 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: , richard szabo, wonderland   

    There Is A Chapter Titled “The Cops” 

    Long before joining the investigation into finding John Holmes in 1981, LA detective Frank Tomlinson had been involved in some major cases, like the Black Muslim shootout and brawl in 1962, as well as the Hillside Strangler case of Buono and Bianchi, among others. There was also a murder case against a Mexican Mafia member. That case is not very bizarre. What is bizarre though, is the witness in the case, Joseph Belarde Garcia, was later convicted of rape and is now known as the Central Coast Rapist.

    The late seventies found Frank involved in the Garcia witness case. Garcia was a lifelong criminal, but Tomlinson and his partner, Richard Szabo, had Joe Garcia released to police custody since Joe agreed to turn state’s witness in order to try and bring down Mexican Mafia captain Arthur Blajos, known as “Conejo” (the rabbit). While released into police custody – and upon finding they shared deep Christian beliefs – Tomlinson invited Garcia to stay at his home. Joe had even babysat Frank’s two young sons. After this chapter, Garcia committed the rape of his girlfriend’s daughter. He was caught by the mother and Garcia called Tomlinson asking what to do. Frank called the police and he was arrested. Joe Garcia was convicted and served about 8 years for this crime. Garcia was married in prison and was released in 1987. But Garcia was busted again and subsequently identified by eight more rape victims. Garcia’s rap as a serial rapist is a long story – but with few supporters calling for his release claiming he was wrongfully convicted – the evidence holds up and he is currently incarcerated at Chino, and has been in prison since 1991.

    Frank Tomlinson authored the book The First Crime Scene based on some of his investigations. Frank’s partner, the legendary LAPD cop Richard Szabo, said: “He was the most tenacious investigator I have ever known.”

    You can read more about Frank’s cases in The First Crime Scene and also Richard Szabo’s storied LAPD career in The Streets Are Blue by Gary Farmer. Both are highly rated books on Amazon. You may also read samples from both books on Google Books.

    • steven hatcher 9:13 pm on November 4, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      there is a interesting new blog : the sacramento outlaw , that just started yesterday . please feel free to go on del flynn productions email address to make an entry . should there be a feature film on the wonderland gang before they met john holmes ? this new blog is very interested in your opinions and ideas . the infamous porn star john holmes has had his posthumous light shine on him in movies and books . we should ask ourselves : who were the real wonderland gang ? what truths have been distorted about them ? del flynn productions want to someday make a feature documentary film about the wonderland gang , that is complex , honest , intelligent and entertaining . we don t want to show them as cardboard cutouts perpetuated by people who did not know them personally . but human beings caught in a dubious epoc . who made very bad choices together. del flynn productions does not want to steal wonderland 1981 s blog s thunder . they have done a terrific job in putting together excellent information on the wonderland gang . we will always be in this blog s debt . there will be more future work on the sacramento outlaw blog , moreover , be very patient as del flynn productions does their best in putting together a blog everybody will like . enjoy ! the new blog is also a forum for true crime buffs , who are interested in the darkness of the human spirit ! thank you for your time and consideration .

    • Jill Nelson 3:51 pm on November 10, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      The First Crime Scene is an excellent book. Frank Tomlinson is a wonderful person and an intimidating man, even today.

  • John 8:55 am on October 12, 2015 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: , , , wonderland   

    Repost – The Starwood and Gary Fontenot 

    I know the blog has 600 posts and it’s hard to browse everything. There are some new readers here and maybe they have not seen this yet. This is from Gary’s brother, Patrick. The questions are mine, with help from readers here at the blog. Thanks.

    Gary was originally from a small town in western Louisiana. He headed out west to pursue his dreams and unlike so many others, he was a success. Gary was a good man and a fine club manager. He was often at odds with Eddie, over business and other things. Read on….

    Did you ever visit your brother at his house in Studio City during the 70s or 80s?  Did you meet any showbiz types?

    My family and I visited Gary as often as possible on the weekends when he lived in West Hollywood…”Studio City”???…I am not that familiar with Los Angeles and that area…but Gary lived in a rather nice little place that was pretty much walking distance to Sunset Blvd and it did not seem like it was a far drive from the Starwood.  I do not remember the street name.  He lived there with his friend Michael and Michael I believe was a nurse…doing private work if I recall.  They had been friends for some time.  I would also take some of my military friends to Gary’s home on Friday nights so they could experience the nightclub life at the Starwood.  He would give us the VIP treatment everytime we would visit.

    What exactly happened to Gary at the end of his life? Was he really living in central America? Retired?

    When things began to go downhill for Gary he decided to move to Honduras.  He actually drove there with some kid that I believe was from that area were they settled.  Gary opened his own place down there and seemed to be happy…always inviting me to visit.  However, by nature of my military job, I had to be very careful.  Gary experienced an attempted robbery one evening when closing and was shot in the stomach.  I don’t think he ever recovered, although his cause of death was attributed to prostate cancer.  My brother Dale, flew down to Honduras several times to visit Gary and the last time he flew down was to ensure Gary received a proper burial.

    Did Gary ever discuss Eddie Nash, who was his boss at the Starwood?

    Gary did in fact talk a little about Nash.  Lot of times it was in anger, however many times I believe the tone was respect.  Nash would provide Gary with new cars which Gary loved…he did like showing off a little.  I remember the last car given to Gary by Nash was a brand new Cadillac…we would drive to the Starwood in it and employees of the Starwood would jump in the car to park it when they recognized Gary in the car.

    What did Gary do for a living right after the Starwood closed?

    After the Starwood, Gary was not the same.  He moved into an apartment complex and dabbled a little in real estate…but was unemployed a lot of the time;although he would never tell me.  When at the Starwood, he was in control and afterward he seemed to lose that feeling.  The apartment complex was nothing fancy…about the only thing I remember about it was a visitor that came by one day while I was there.  Gary introduced him as an ex-FBI individual.  I assumed he was because he was carrying a gun.  They did not talk about anything specific and I guessed they had been acquaintances from way back.

    Did your brother ever tell you that his house was shot up by a dealer with a machine gun? He was looking for the soundman of the Starwood, who owed him some money? Gary allegedly let the soundman, Dom Fragomeli, stay at his house in Studio City for a few weeks in 1981.

    In 1981 I left California for Texas.  I don’t think Gary was living in the original home when I first got to California.  I am thinking he was still living in the apartment complex…is that what you meant as far as “home”.  Gary barely mentioned that happening…we would talk by phone…He did not go into detail.  But, knowing Gary, it would not surprise me that he had allowed someone to stay in his home.  He was just that type of person.  I believe he left California shortly after that incident.  Keep in mind, the Nash thing, the Starwood, coupled by him losing a lot of money in the stock market…Gary needed a change.  He had a hate/love relationship with California.  As a small town boy, Los Angeles and the Hollywood scene took its toll on Gary.  He was apparently good at what he did, managing nightclubs, but did rub elbows with some questionable people.

    Hope this helps…as you think of questions, let me know and I will answer them the best I can.  Will try and dig up some photos of Gary.  You would really need to know where and how he grew up to understand the personal conflict he had with the whole Hollywood scene…

    Have a great day.

    • Gen 1%er 11:17 am on October 13, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      Ron Launius was forever altered by being in the shit for no telling how many years. He came back to Fayetteville where SF were located and Doc Mac was the Doc for SF. He saw Ron’s track marks and went to confront some people.

      Ron was hooked and he was likely one of a group of people that tipped the local dealers. Ron may have been there that night Doc Mac’s family was slaughtered. God knows MP’s had every reason to fuck up the crime scene as they received a cut for every bit of #3 and #4 that Lucas got in through Fayetteville and Columbus through the false bottom coffins.

      Ronnie was a spook, and that is how he got away with a lot of shit when he got out. If you look for pictures of Barry Seal during the early Mena AR years- Ronnie is two shots. When that damn Wonderland mssg board was up, a lot of the good things about Ronnie got excised from Google News archive and the search engines. Paper is a bitch though- if you look hard enough, Ronnie was a decent fella. He had no aspirations to be a biker or AB. David was solely somebody from the joint who could provide H out of Mexico or Canada.

      Lind’s sole connection to an MC was really the Straight Satans. When he got back out of one of his stays in Cali Corrections, they were no longer an existing patch. Some were involved with the Satans Slaves out of LA and the SFV. Slave Louie was killed by a Straight Satan who became a Mongol- that killed Lind’s chance of ever becoming an 81 member. Lind was pushing dope for a Mongol and fucking a massage parlor girl who was fucking an 81 and a Mongol- that bitch kicked off 40 years of war. Lind wanted to be 81 but he couldn’t meet the no needle rule that was virtually national by this time, he was in tight with a couple of LA Mongols for a dope connection and he provided them girls for LA massage parlors- brothels. AMPs werern’t a thing til post Ed Meese.

      Lind was an associate and crime partner to Michael Thompson of the AB. Lind was never accepted by the AB council as an associate- Hulk hated him, hated his poser bullshit, hated his attitude, hated his smuggling in IV drugs and rigs through his Massage Parlor girls.

      Lind also fucked up when he took and fucked up the Margo Compton hit. It was an open fact where she was in Dago before they moved her out of state. The AB had some problems with her testifying as her ol’ man who beat on her, was AB. The 81 had crossed the AB by having Latino and Phillipino members and then they got involved with Margo.

      No 81 wanted her dead. The AB did. Michael Thompson farmed it out to Lind and Lind nodded off and she was gone. The AB followed her mail and her killed. The ATF wanted the 81 brother more than any of the AB at the time, as the AB did not have a strong street gang presence.

      If this gets posted, I’ll provide more.

      “Butterfly” was no different to Lind than any of his other massage girls. That was not the love of his life. Clean #4 cut with Fentanyl was the love of his life. Period.

      I have more. I tried to leave a dead drop number to wonderland81 at gmail.com but received no call or response, so if this isn’t published- fuck it.

      • John 8:40 am on October 15, 2015 Permalink | Reply

        Thanks rebel, please tell us more. I did receive your other email, but please email me. I was holding on to the goods because it was something that I needed for Barb’s background story. What can you tell me about her ex-husband Walter? Email me and thanks.

      • Gayle 3:35 am on November 9, 2015 Permalink | Reply

        Fascinating!! It’s interesting to read about their association with the MC’s. I did not know about Lind’s involvement with the Straight Satan’s.

  • John 12:02 pm on October 10, 2015 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: scorsese, steven prince, wonderland   

    Taxi Driver’s “Easy Andy” At Wonderland? 

    This was originally shared via the FB page. The FB page is back up by the way. I had intended to go out west earlier this year to meet some folks and that did not happen. This January/Feb the trip will finally be possible. In the past year, I have undergone my own discovery of faith, love, addiction and redemption. There is so much I want to share with you, and I have been writing and researching like crazy. It will be in the book. Thanks all.

    In a strangely relaxing scene from the chaotic film, Taxi Driver, Steven Prince was great as Easy Andy the gun and drug dealer. At the 41:00 minute mark of the following video “American Prince”, Steven talks of Wonderland. Thanks to Bobby for the link. Also, I am told Scott Thorson is seeking to do a new book or movie and wants investors, if you have the ca$h. That’s funny…and yeah, there’s a chapter on him too. I would take a trip up to that Nevada prison he’s in, but he will just muddy the waters with more BS. I don’t need that revisionist history. Truth clarifies!! As MLK once said “the universe bends towards justice”.

    • swrworkingman 6:15 pm on October 11, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      Good to see you back John

    • Ken 2:33 am on October 12, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      Talk with Rodger Jacobs if you want to know all about this nutcase woman…..

    • Jill C. Nelson 1:54 pm on October 14, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      “In the past year, I have undergone my own discovery of faith, love, addiction and redemption.” Whether related or not, there is something about this story that brings about all of the above. Glad to read that you are well and working hard, John.

      • John 8:30 am on October 15, 2015 Permalink | Reply

        Thanks Jill. Glad you are still here.

    • Bobby 8:02 am on October 21, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      Really great to hear you’re well John and that your pop is doing a lot better!

  • John 1:10 pm on September 8, 2014 Permalink | Reply
    Tags: police informants, wonderland   

    The Use Of Police Informants During The 60s & 70s 

    A reader recently posted a comment concerning police tactics with the use of informants, or snitches. By no coincidence, I am writing a chapter for the book about the use of informants. In the Wonderland story we have two!  David Lind and John Holmes. Now, vice cops have no way into the drug dealing world, unless they bust some low-level user or dealer, maybe a delivery guy. We’ve all seen the TV shows. But in my research, I have found several cases from the 60s and 70s from the Northern California area that show airman from nearby Air Force bases dealing in, or being suspected of dealing in drugs. In 1968, this was right in Ron’s stomping ground. Drugs were everywhere.

    An informant is usually corralled by first getting caught with drugs. Rather than face some jail-time, and if approached, they will often agree to cooperate with authorities. The info they give cops may or may not be good intel. The War on Drugs is a real bitch and just because some informant tells a vice cop that there is weed at someone’s house – well that does not mean it is true.

    This quote is from a drug case in 1968, where an informant – who may have needed to score some brownie points with his detective – is caught in the middle. I wonder who these four airman were?

    The challenged affidavit was prepared by Detective Roy D. Whiteaker of the Yuba City Police Department, largely on information furnished by a police informant, James Ronald Brooks. Brooks contacted Detective Whiteaker on March 16, 1968, and told him that certain parties residing in an apartment house at 357 Ainsley Avenue were planning to transport two kilograms of marijuana from San Francisco to their apartment, at about 3 o’clock that afternoon. The informer, at Whiteaker’s direction, then went to the Ainsley Avenue apartment house to obtain more information if possible. Later, Brooks told the detective that upon his arrival at the apartment house he was invited into an apartment belonging to four airmen from Beale Air Force Base. One of the airmen was under the influence of narcotics; his eyes were glazed and dilated. After a few minutes, two airmen went to appellant’s apartment next door and returned with appellant. Appellant asked what Brooks wanted, and Brooks answered “grass.” Appellant looked at an airman named Vern and said, “I don’t want to,” and returned to his apartment alone. Brooks stated that appellant was also under the influence of narcotics, and that Vern had referred to him as an “acid freak.”

    The affidavit alleged that the Office of Special Investigation at Beale Air Force Base informed Detective Sergeant Smith that one of the suspect airmen had told a fellow serviceman that he had taken $100 from his bank account to buy part of two kilograms of marijuana. The affidavit also alleged that appellant had been convicted of a narcotics offense and that the Sutter County sheriff’s office had received confidential information that he was again using narcotics.

    The End.

    • criticextraordinaire 5:46 am on September 9, 2014 Permalink | Reply

      I always wondered how David Lind could get away with being an alleged snitch. I mean, the circles in which it is alleged he ran would never tolerate that sort of thing. Rat out those guys to the cops and next thing you know, you’re found in a ditch somewhere with a dollar bill stuffed in your mouth.

      But that then raises the question… did Lind really pass away in 1995, or was he spirited away to the Witness Protection Program as I have heard in some forums? ???

      • Anon4Now 8:10 pm on September 9, 2014 Permalink | Reply

        As I remember things I used to read, most followers of this tragedy knew Lind was let into witness protection after the first trial, when both he and Holmes tried to enter it. He was already in it when he died in ’95, if he really did die and if he wasn’t kicked out of the program for drug use or crime.

        The part of your post that does make sense is if he did get kicked out. If he got whisked away to another part of witness protection other than what he was already in, it’d probably be for misusing his good fortune. But it’s like you read, once in protection, no one will ever get a straight answer from law enforcement about your whereabouts or new name and SSN. Not even their wives or mothers; once they’re gone, they’re gone unless they blow it.

        And getting away with snitching of this magnitude in Sacramento may have happened, perhaps, due to these rampaging crankster-gangsters having mothers, brothers, or wives working in the state capitol or law enforcement. These crazed wild men usually had rich daddies up there, many of whom were cops or state workers. It’s easier to be a wild biker if your dad foots the bill.

        “Rat out those guys to the cops…” You mean their grandfathers? Or their father-in-laws?

        • localarts 3:38 pm on September 16, 2014 Permalink

          If Lind is alive, he would be in is 70’s. I think Lind is with butterfly, probably has been for some time.

        • criticextraordinaire 7:40 pm on September 17, 2014 Permalink

          If Lind is indeed dead, it is too bad that he did not get to be buried next to Butterfly.

        • Mark C 10:31 am on September 26, 2014 Permalink

          They said Henry Hill from Goodfellows movie fame got completely kicked out of The Witness Protection Program all together, So I guess this very well could of happen to David Lind too maybe???. It sure I guess would not been the very 1st time in history that did happened.

          What they deported Carlos Marcello one time out in middle of a Guatemala rain forest jungle miles from anybody in dress clothes & shoes one time back in 1961, He was wondering around for like 3 days out in middle of that rain forest before he could get to any other people. Govt. can be pretty mean if they want to be.

          Well I think in Henry Hill case, He was getting caught for DUI like about weekly, And going back and/or calling NYC all the time without Fed’s knowing. Dealing dope and number other crimes I think he got caught up in while he was still in the Witness Protection Program.

          What little I read I think Henry was the poster boy for the Witness Protection Program Bad Boy Program. Or what rules not to break in the program. I think he was moved at least 3 or more different times and he still kept getting into trouble all the time. He lived for a time in a little small Northern KY town not far from my own home I found out later on. Then I think he went somewhere out around the Seattle area.

          He loved his ponies and gambling.

          Year’s later I had the luck to not personally meet Henry, but I did say Hi and walked right by Henry Hill near a east coast resort town one pretty summer day, Yes he did have 2 Bodyguards with him that day. I asked 1 of the Bodyguards, He told me yes that was Henry from Goodfellows movie fame, But Henry looked pretty drunk to myself at only @ 1 pm right after lunch time and he just keep walking by like a jerk to myself. He must had a lot of lunch time drinks he looked to myself as he was down right staggering.

          But this was after his movie fame & books even a cook book and web site came out, I still can’t get over just how small and short Henry was in real life and here he was played up as this big tough mean mobster in the movie’s. Well it was only a few years before his death, But he looked only about 5-6 maybe 145 pds at that time to myself, but I was still kind of shocked at just how small & ill health looking he was, But too I am fairly big guy myself, I played WR in Football for many years.

    • localarts 4:39 pm on September 18, 2014 Permalink | Reply

      Not sure Barbara’s parents would have approved of that.

    • anon4no2 9:27 pm on September 19, 2014 Permalink | Reply

      I don’t know if urls copy to your blog, but apparently one of the airmen’s name was Vern: https://www.courtlistener.com/calctapp/c19E/people-v-hill/

      I suppose this website was where you got your post. Conversationally, I’ve found some old cases on the computer that are oddly gone now. Specific relevancy to the Wonderland case is questionable, but they do give some background to the Sacramento County crime scene that led to what really is the devastation caused to the entire state by Sacramento detective’s crime solving “expertise.” It doesn’t happen overnight: http://law.justia.com/cases/california/calapp2d/98/770.html and: http://law.justia.com/cases/california/cal2d/34/669.html

      OK, I get to do this, John. Please post this message, there is really nothing inflammatory in it. Gen. Pease was one of those real American heroes we watch Hollywood movies about, and I don’t include these old cases without reason. Beale AFB isn’t far from Sacramento, and Barbara’s people lived in Rancho Cordova, as I remember it. That’s where Mather AFB was when it had the B-52 squadron there. Everyone remembers the protest those got. Gen. Pease became a very influential Sacramento attorney (even though he apparently lost these two cases. Can’t win ’em all).

      A decade ago you’d read on the Web that Launius was a Marine stationed in Vietnam with the 37th Marines. Posters whom I do not know would place on chat boards that he was responsible for 37 homicides; it was easy to remember the coincidence of his crimes and military unit. There was even a 37th Marines veteran website, had Vietnam-era Marine photos on it and everything. Then, over the years his military service changed to Air Force and he was transferred, if you will, from Vietnam to Thailand. The number of homicides he was credited with changed, also, no idea if they now matched the squadron number of whatever he was stationed with in Thailand. All mention of any US 37th Marines (even the unit reunion website) disappeared from the Web.

      I never knew Launius, but I do know that if he served honorably (or even nearly honorably as those were really difficult years to be in the nation’s military) his memory shouldn’t be slandered. Or, with the way Hollywood has of artfully altering history to make everything more screen-sparkly, not slandered too awful badly.

      Whatever the argument was in Sacramento with the California veterans who were drafted and sent to the Pacific both during WW II and Vietnam, and those who were in the WW II ETO and stateside, you can actually follow the timeline of the state’s legislator’s (the state capitol’s) demise. These were veterans that were worthy of their own movies, ones that’ll never be seen. The Cold War cast many of these veterans into obscurity and slow dissolution, and we read about it today in movies like Wonderland after their families were forced off their property after the war.

      Lind and Barbara were also persons who had backgrounds not entirely as depicted in Wonderland. But, so what? Hollywood needs villains just like Big Time Wrestling.

      • criticextraordinaire 6:45 pm on September 22, 2014 Permalink | Reply


        I read on the old Lionsgate board a post from an old ‘Nam buddy of Ronnie’s. His buddy said that Ronnie wanted to go out on a mission with a SOG team and was allowed to do so. He claimed that Ronnie could see Charlie in pitch black conditions because a purple light shone from his head into the darkness and he could see the VC like it was daylight. Assuming this is true, the characterization of Ronnie as ‘fearless’ would seem to be spot on.

        I think he also mentioned that they got ambushed by some VC and that Ronnie dispatched quite a few either with a bayonet or simply a combat knife. It was a few years ago so I forget some of the details.

        • Anon4Now 8:37 pm on September 22, 2014 Permalink

          Hi, thanks for your reply. I’ve read nearly all your posts for the past decade, and I understand you to be an intelligent and mature person, and I really enjoy your concern for this whole predicament. That’s what it truly is.

          I also know that there’s a lot of showbiz in this old story. I am not a showbiz person, and I become confused at times by some person’s efforts at embellishing or distorting what happened back then. The statute of limitations has expired long ago for anything involved in this Wonderland thing excepting capital crimes. Due to the deaths of many of the involved parties, even that is not a bothersome point.

          You were probably talking about that Grunt person who posted on Lions Gate. He had some conversation with Russ, another poster. I personally don’t remember much about that other than Grunt talking about some patrol he was involved in where he had contact with NVA or VC. I do remember a few posters there really hyping up Launius’ lethalness bost during the war and after. I imagine that’s true, but what you reference was when Launius was said to be a Marine in Vietnam rather than in the Air Force in Thailand stuffing body bags full of dope.

          I do remember the story of violet beams that would project from Launius’ forehead to pinpoint VC. This next is a story I’ve never told to anyone other than an Army veteran of Granada at the VA. No real idea of how we came to talk, but anyway I was stationed with an airborne unit in Germany when the first OPEC took off at the end of ’73. The airborne unit got transferred to Italy so they’d have a short hop across the Med should the OPEC nations continue to withhold oil. I didn’t go to Italy with them, I was transferred to another station in Germany, but as the barracks was clearing out I heard a song on the radio (tuned to AFN) that I always remember as the singer’s last name was the same as my parent’s neighbors, Hagar. It was Sammy Hagar singing “I Can’t Drive 55.” Nice song, and it was when the nation was reducing all the speed limits to 55 and under to conserve gas.

          Of course, you’ll find on the computer that Hagar came out with this song in 1984, over 10 years later. Yet, I know I heard this on USAREUR’s AFN station as the airborne was leaving, it happened and it’s too bad that Launius is said to have commie finding beams of light darting from his forehead. Is that a real story, or was he in Thailand? Mine’s real.

          The Hagar family I knew is the one that introduced me to Lind and Barbara. Hollywood people can have all the fun with this they want to, and they can slander the veterans who had to serve this miserable nation in a time that they will always be despised and reviled for, but what happened was real back then.

          Grunt’s a generic name for infantry. I used to get speeding tickets.

        • criticextraordinaire 5:46 pm on September 23, 2014 Permalink


          Are you saying that the purple light story that was at Lionsgate was BS? Possibly could be, just like the “girl in the closet” story that has pretty much been discredited. People can post pretty much anything they want in the interweb.

      • Mark C 8:31 am on September 26, 2014 Permalink | Reply

        I don’t know much about the purple light story, I read the above story and not sure but this might or maybe not explain what they talking about.

        After like 35 years of my life without knowing & 1 real good pre-job physical, I found out I was very minor Color Blind just some different shades of color, Not the traffic stop light type, I can’t see the color of the light’s type, I can see that good.

        All my life people hunting with myself never could figure out how I saw wild game so fast and good. I throw gun up and go Boom and scare them to 1/2 to death all the time, Because they never saw what I be shooting at until I go & get the Grouse Or Wild Turkey or what ever wild game we would happen to be hunting for at that given time.

        Within last few years, I saw my older cousin after way over 30 + some years ago without us seeing each other, He lived many states away. He was in Nam and we found out we both was same type of way Color Blind, He told me it was different shades of colors he saw help him pick out stuff that most others could not spot quickly.

        He told me within his 1st few days in Nam he was told to take “The Point” & told Sgt. I don’t know if you really want me up there, I am a little bit Color Blind, But Sgt. told him that great luck has hit our Platoon because that is the very person they wanted on point. After that my cousin spent his tour mainly on point & everybody trusted him, Most all the time’s his Platoon got hit. My cousin would be in rear area over small injury or some other minor mishap. But thank god he did make it back home physically in pretty good shape,

        Little research very lot of my family that was in military before from Rev. War onward has been snipers & before K-Ratios I guess in-between sniper trips they would hunt for wild game to feed the troop’s mainly before WW1 when troops really didn’t have all that easy food & ready to eat meals handy.

        One pretty famous Rev. War battle my couple great grandfather & his son’s name is on the list of being there in the battle, But in truth he a was few miles away hunting for fresh meat to feed the troops & heard the battle start but it was over by the time he & his son made it back to the battle area. That true story been told through many generations of family folk-lore.

        This just a idea what these soldiers could be talking about. Could not be.. I really don’t know. Just a idea maybe could explain what they are talking about on the Purple Light Story.

        • Anon4Now 8:47 pm on September 26, 2014 Permalink

          Just noticed your post, Mark. Those are great stories.

          I’ve read articles about people have extra cones or whatever they are in their eyes. That enhances their perceptions of color and shade. Just found the article: http://discovermagazine.com/2012/jul-aug/06-humans-with-super-human-vision

          This might only pertain to women, but who knows?

          The story of your Revolutionary ancestor was nice, too. If your unit is involved in a battle or skirmish, you’re said to be included in it as long as you weren’t AWOL or something. Reality is different, someone might have been on guard duty the night before and if it’s a short battle, it might be over before he even wakes up. My father always denied being in the Battle of the Bulge, and it wasn’t until I got a computer that I found out parts of his division was in the Bulge and Hurtgen Forest (the last one I never even heard of before). His specific unit was elsewhere, probably a few miles away.

          The Revolutionary ancestor my mom’s family used to get into DAR wasn’t even a uniformed soldier, from what I can tell. He participated in the “Braintree Riot” when some British troops rode into town. No idea what he did, but he might have just thrown rocks or something.

          That was nice, Mark.

        • Mark C 7:18 pm on September 30, 2014 Permalink

          Thanks a lot for your reply.

          That was the 1st, I guess Professor type grade report I ever read about Color Blindness, Dr. found it in me told me it was a lot of times inherited through your family gene lines.
          But this my eye site is and just a every day normal thing for myself.

          I never would known about my cousin color blindness who was right there and fought in Nam unless we wasn’t setting back one night drinking a few cold ones & I told him I didn’t think Military would put me in combat over my eye site & he told me it sure didn’t help him if anything it hurt him having to be out on point about his whole tour. Very nerve racking I would guess,
          Then he told me all about his story and about our uncle who told him after his tour in Nam was over about his own experiences in Pacific in WW2 who was a underwater demo expert that had and was same color blindness type as us.

          I guess only way we ever will know if Ronnie was maybe really Color Blind is if we ever find out if Color Blindness ran in his family kin-folk or gene line. My guess getting his Medical Records be more than a very long shot for us. Maybe John can wave his magic wand on that stunt needs to be pulled.

          To myself Color Blindness would make more common sense than a “Purple Beam” coming from Ronnie’s forehead. But who knows with Ronnie, But I just have a feeling Ronnie might been the type to play up any type in his own mind of any Superman type extra abilities he may had. Plus Ronnie I think wanted fame. Surely not how he got it, But I do think he wanted to be famous.

          Ronnie keep coked up head Holmes supplied in Coke and around for a while even though Billy did not like Holmes just so I think people would know Holmes worked for him..

          You don’t see that trait or I don’t in Billy. Billy interesting guy himself, but I feel he was little bit more on the quiet side but more reasonable level headed and not so quick for action. But if that story is true about Billy & McCourt was going pull the Nash hit themselves when everybody else was going pull out. Then I wonder?? But this case is as bad as Holmes own stories go on what really is the truth and what is a bunch of BS.

        • Anon4Now 12:04 am on October 7, 2014 Permalink

          And thanks again for your posts, Mark. You write well; it’s easy to follow your thought process. With extra cones you could have super vision of a sort. At least, that’s what it says in one of those articles.

          Like I told John, my interest in this story is Sacramento-based. After that, I don’t have much conversation. I don’t know anything about porn, never knew anyone in it, and don’t really think I’d get along well with them even if they didn’t know I used to know Lind. Sounds like some of them might be angry about things.

          But, I do have a couple memories I’d like to share if it’s OK with you, John. Like I said in my emails, this treatment that you’ve given the movie seems mature, unlike some of the old chat boards. My input isn’t inflammatory, rather it’s simply thought-provoking.

          Anyway, Barbara was near to true beauty. Under closer scrutiny, maybe she was one or two jots off, but she was very attractive and had personality. One mutual friend had a duplex, and, when Lind and Barbara were there and he had to take off for a while to do something, he’d leave Barbara there with whoever else was present at the time. Barbara, maybe when she was feeling rambunctious, would say something like “Good, David, maybe I’ll have _____ to [play with] while you’re gone.” She did that with me once, and Lind got this really weird look on his face and said “Good, maybe he can.” That was truly frightening: Barbara was someone I never actually got closer than friendship with, I always remember that look on Lind’s face, it was a real deterrent.

          I had an immediate family member die in ’80, and Barbara came over to my parent’s house with another male friend one day. They spent a night or two, and I noticed later that my mom’s tub of Albolene Cream had some massive finger scoops taken out of the middle of it. Usually my mom used it for chapped lips and a tub would last a decade or so, and I asked Barbara if she knew anything about it. She got excited and said it’s ‘way better than Vaseline cream as it warms up when friction’s applied. It seems she liked it a lot.

          This was after Lind had gotten busted, and he called collect from the Sacramento County Branch Jail in Elk Grove asking if I’d seen Barbara. That part of the jail is for misdeamenors, traffic tickets, DUIs, and light weight felonies. It’s far from prison, and it’s sort of proof that whatever it was he got busted for, he did county time rather than prison. Unless, of course, he was in the security side of it and still going to court. They do that there, too, to be fair to him, and I never asked him what side of the jail he was on. But obviously he was out in a very short time judging by Wonderland’s time frame. I lied to him, I didn’t tell him she’d been there with the other male as I figured he’d find out about it himself and I’d claim amnesia or something. I felt bad, but didn’t want to bum his time out. But he did that, he called and if they still have old phone records, it’d be there.

          Without rambling about too much, Barbara and I wandered around my parent’s back yard one day. It was a virtual park, my father grew up on a farm and had a very green thumb. No drama, just a really nice memory I have of her, kind of scenic.

          Those two people were human. Both had quirks, and, John, if and when you write your book, if you want to focus on the dehumanizing aspect of law enforcement turning out snitches, be the snitches willing or unwitting police accomplices, these are maybe two good examples. Barbara still had sweetness, and I’d say Lind was still a man at the time. Of course, his crowd’s definition of man-ness really differs from the common citizen’s and they’re far better judges of their own type than I am, but he still had his human part. You could tell by his demeanor and conversation, and Barbara could be truly sweet when she wanted to be.

          I never did anything so criminal that they’d make a profit off of snitching on me, but my family did later lose the property. But that happened to a lot of Sacramento families back then, and how that all came about really puts a different spin on the whole Wonderland story.

          Thanks very much for the responses I got here, and this is where my story ends. Nice place, John.

    • Anon4Now 8:51 pm on September 23, 2014 Permalink | Reply

      I’m going to try to respond to your post, Critic, except there’s no “reply” to click on, only “Permalink.” I hope it’s the same.

      I have no way to tell if the purple haze commie light was true or not. Odd things happen, and it could be that Launius had a built-in starlight scope which would be a handy natural tool to have. Sure to get him promotions if his squad leader knew about it. And, thinking about it from another angle, maybe he was Air Force but still wanted to go out with the grunts from time to time. If he had a friend that was a Marine, maybe he got to tag along a few times. Getting across the border from Thailand to a northern Vietnam-stationed Marine unit might have been a chore, but not impossible for someone serious about it. You read about Vietnamese successfully going the opposite way all the time.

      I remember the “girl in the closet” story appearing on the Lions Gate board at a later time than many of the other posts. That was supposed to be that Laurie girl that everyone used to get mad at, wasn’t it? Not Laurie Holmes, but the Laurie that used to try to hustle donations from NAMI or something. I remember Laurie Holmes was supposed to be upset about purported copyright infringements on the use of Holmes’ name and personal history (which I know nothing of as I never knew him or any of his friends). I remember a poster named Cap that did a lot of sp@m or something; it took me a while to notice Cap Mauzner’s name. There was also a Boogie Night, easy to remember due to the other Wonderland-type movie.

      Some of the posts I remember was about how surprised people were about Wonderland getting jerked from the theaters so fast, and when they did its remake or sequel they were going to “do it right this time.” Thinking about it, it was almost as if they were in shock or something. They shouldn’t have been, they should have realized they’d catch some strong feelings just from Holmes’ profession alone. Then, there’s all the Sacramento politics that came with it, maybe that’s what caught them unawares.

      I remember when x-rated movies started getting space on the Sacramento newspaper’s family movie pages. A little section at the bottom of the page under Disney and blaxploitation ads, Holmes, Seka, all the other names you remember from those days. The only way porn got away with that was all the press they were getting at the time about being anti-war, pro-peace, non-violence, and anti-drug; they were the squeakiest, cleanest, most wholesome people you could imagine, they just liked to hop on each other naked and in front of the camera.

      Then Lind met Holmes and all that crashed down. It seems that the porn folks got really angry about that as they lost untold billions from Holmes himself, and lost much of their credibility as being anti-violence and anti-drug. Lost much of their political platform and financial support, one fell swoop.

      As I remember your posts, Critic, you and Boogie were pro-Nash and porn. Judging Nash’s roots, you should find my OPEC story interesting. Sammy Hagar’s “I Can’t Drive 55” got a real “Ride of the Valkyries” spin from AFN. I can’t knock the story about Launius’ black light turning VCs into glowing Jimmy Hendrix posters, as I really know what I heard. So, what we’ve just done here, John, is not only bump Cap Mauzner, but Oliver Stone, too. That was easy.


      • criticextraordinaire 6:55 pm on September 24, 2014 Permalink | Reply

        Well I always assumed that the “violet light from the forehead” was really rhetorical and not literal. Like Ronnie was saying (if he said anything at all) that he could really zone in on Charlie. Whatever his story in ‘Nam, the various constabularies in California certainly appear to have had a modicum of respect for his capabilities. I always kinda wondered how you go from being a kick-ass member of a SOG team to being a supply clerk in Bangkok though.

        Can’t exactly say I am pro-Eddie, but with regard to the whole Wonderland hit, I’ve gone on record that basically Ronnie and Billy (as well as David and I suppose Tracy) were basically asking for it. I mean shucks… you do what they did to Eddie and his foot dogs are not supposed to get rough? While I respect Ronnie for his chutzpah, he pretty much got what he had coming after that. And nobody pulled that kind of stunt on Eddie ever again.

        I remember Boogie Knight, he was definitely a Holmes connoisseur; I think he knew all of Johnny’s flicks. Encyclopaedic knowledge of all things Holmesian. To me John is a nostalgic figure; I remember as a kid the local newspapers running full-page ads for the latest Johnny Wadd films starring “Big John” Holmes, or lesser flicks starring the likes of Tony “The Hook” Perez or the Ivory Snow girl. Back then everybody knew of Johnny Holmes, he was a folk hero, sort of counterculture-gone-mainstream. So any story involving John takes me back to the old days when things were simpler.

        I also remember one dude who allegedly got fired from his job at a paper manufacturing company, for using his company email account to send unpleasant emails to some gal on the LionsGate board who was a regular. That LionsGate board was wild for sure. No wonder they shut it down.

        Oh and also there was a postress named WILDHEART (always in all caps) who got herself a set of custom license plates for her automobile… “WADD”. Awesome.

        • Anon4Now 10:36 pm on September 24, 2014 Permalink

          “Can’t exactly say I am pro-Eddie…” I remember one post that was made under your name (not saying it was you) I think on the IMDb board where you said Nash was “Israeli mafia.” Some of that IMDb talk was mirrored on the Lions Gate board. I don’t know what a “mafia” is, but I’ve watched all the Puzo movies like everyone else. When someone mentions “mafia” I think of ethnic or multi-racial Hollywood-type criminal groups, or “crews” as they’re called on the Net. But I thought Nash was Palestinian?

          There was one girl from the Oak Park area of Sacramento, that might have been the Wildheart you were talking about. She was also making some kind of arty-type creations with a Wadd theme.

          I don’t know what “screen caps” are, but one female poster (as I remember it) was making “screen caps” for some kind of Wonderland-Wadd type production. If any’s been made I’ve never seen it.

          I think there was another female poster whose father had once been employed at a Great Lakes-area brewery like Budweiser or something.

          I remember the story of the paper-plant employee, but I thought it was Laurie working there scaring people. I think I read that she’d been in prison for killing someone for a bag of dope. Honestly, that’s a bit much. From what I’ve heard (no personal experience; I’ve never grown or manufactured drugs, so I don’t honestly know anything about drugs one way or the next) people can’t just go around getting even with everyone every time they buy a small quantity of bad dope. It might not be the dealer’s fault, it might be his supplier having to cut back for a moment. Or maybe not, maybe it is an intentional burn. But maybe the burner will make it up to the burnee at a later time after he gets his foodstamps or something; it’s not something to immediately go into a terminal spin over. That’s simply not good business.

          Since Wonderland came out there’s been a lot of drug legalization movements in many states, and press like what Laurie’s said to have is exactly what causes these changes. Do you remember the pound of baking soda story and the post by someone that they should name a “new drug” after Launius or whoever it was that did that? Now that’s a larger amount of burn, one that would probably warrant a payback. But small time thefts like Laurie’s, and the braggadocio that follows petty crime like that, becomes so repellent after decades go by people will try to change things just to shut them up.

          Which leads into Nash. Was that merely a drug theft? Now honestly, Critic, as many decades as you’ve been discussing this, why wouldn’t guns have been used by whoever it was that did the payback crime (some posters back then talked about a MacLeane family, I’m sure I’ve spelled that wrong)? They obviously weren’t worried about being overheard, there was always a lot of noise from that house anyway.

          I can’t find it right now, but there’s an article on the Web somewhere about a Sacramento Oak Park-area woman whose dog saved her from a home invader a few years ago. I noticed her name as being one that posted on a Wikipedia Wonderland-type related forum, and the home invasion happened a short time after her post (got to see if I can find that). No idea who that woman is, didn’t recognize her picture and Oak Park’s a real wild side of town my parents never told me about anyway, so no clue, just noticing the time coincidence. Me, when I first started following this subject around in 2004, I had a fun time around my house. I’ve moved since then.

          So, how have you been?

        • criticextraordinaire 5:50 am on September 25, 2014 Permalink


          I would never have referred to Eddie as “Israeli Mafia” for the reason you had stated, he is Palestinian as I understand. Besides, most of the Israeli Mafia of which I am aware came from Russia, Uzbekistan, or Georgia and did not emigrate to the USA. These days you hear them referred to euphemistically as “Israeli businessmen”. I probably would have referred to The Nash as a guy not to be messed with based on his reputation in the press and his various convictions.

          Why were guns not used in the hit at 8763? Because it was a revenge hit. For the attackers it was personal, they wanted to inflict pain, send a message to anybody else who might want to mess around. Any murder investigator will tell you that. Bludgeonings tend to be a crime of passion and anger. So that explains why the pipes instead of guns. They wanted the victims to experience pain over a longer period of time than a gunshot would afford. That said I would imagine the attackers were packing too, just in case.

          I do not buy the McLean theory because in that case, if this was a situation where a fellow drug dealer was simply exacting revenge for a baking soda scam, the Gang would indeed have been shot. Strictly business, get in and get out. Nope… the bludgeoning aspect of this crime tells me it was personal.

          WILDHEART… Yeah I remember now, I think she made an art creation for an exhibit in Hollywood for some sort of Museum of Adult Cinema event, something like that. Might have been a decoupage handbag or similar. WILDHEART was always a fun poster, kept things light on the boards. When I was in LA a few years later I kept an eye out for those WADD plates. 🙂

          The chick you mention re: the drug murder… she was acquitted by a jury and so did not do any time for that crime which I believe stands as being officially unsolved. As I recall I think there was a false confession due to some sort of multiple-personality situation but it’s been a long time. It is alleged that she died in 2005 but some of us are not so sure about that, despite the obituary that was printed in a Midwestern newspaper and her Find-A-Grave memorial. Of course if she really is dead then may she RIP.

    • Anon4Now 9:09 am on September 25, 2014 Permalink | Reply


      Thanks for your thorough response. You’re right on all points, and I don’t intentionally mean to put words in person’s mouths or posts. I must have disremembered the post on IMDb about “Israeli mafia,” it might have been from someone else. But I think that might have been the first time I saw that phrase in print.

      OK, remember whoever it was that went to Wonderland hoped they’d find Lind there. Lind and Launius did time together in Chino (though I figured Lind would have been in a Northern California prison). People doing state time have years to be on the weight pile, they get incredibly strong. They really rival professional football players in strength, if not in speed as prison guards don’t like prisoners who can run fast (except in “The Jericho Mile”). Additionally, they get adept in cell fighting, either by figuring out quick, lethal holds on their own against their unhappy cellies, or by tutoring by older, more experienced cons wanting a “crew” of their own. These people are really strong, and you’ll know when you’ve been hit.

      If a group of persons bent on retaliation were to enter a house where there was even one of this kind of ex-con, nothing short of a bazooka would be needed to make sure nothing was left afterwards and a safe escape by the attackers be made. I know payback’s sweet for the aggrieved, but here the success of the payback would need be assured. Really, it’d be safer to throw explosives through a house window from blocks away than to go after someone like Lind or Launius with pipes. Prisoners are schooled on how to hit an attacking lunatic on their upper arms to momentarily paralyze their hands so a home-made shank gets dropped instead of inserted, and that’s why old-time cons would tape shanks into their hands before running into the cell next door to quiet things down. And they can move fast for brief periods; these aren’t normal people anymore, and family members notice that when they come home.

      Except the attackers were no doubt certain that the Wonderland residents would be too loaded to use any of their incredibly lethal skills. That’s how those things end, I guess. All that time on the weight pile,stuffed into their arms and all useless now. Maybe that’s why they didn’t use guns, they knew everyone was too stoned to fight back. I have another theory.

      Remember Sousa and “Four on the Floor?”

      I remember talk of an adult museum in LA, I think you’re right there.

      And thanks for speaking with me.

    • localarts 10:24 am on September 25, 2014 Permalink | Reply

      “Bludgeonings tend to be a crime of passion and anger. So that explains why the pipes instead of guns. They wanted the victims to experience pain over a longer period of time than a gunshot would afford. That said I would imagine the attackers were packing too, just in case”

      That’s true to a lesser degree. I believe everyone was “packing” with the exception of Holmes. You have to remember how close these houses were to one another. Multiple gun shots would have brought way too much attention. We’re talking a minimum five rounds of gun fire at 4 am.

      Everybody has their own theory but nobody knows what the real truth is and never will.

      • criticextraordinaire 6:05 pm on September 25, 2014 Permalink | Reply

        Well I would not expect John to have been packing. If he had, he likely would have gotten the drop on the other guys and saved the day.

      • Anon4Now 11:05 pm on September 25, 2014 Permalink | Reply

        Browsing through some old emails, it was Lori Sheirer: “…in October ’05 in the ‘Letter to Lori Scheirer’s Probation Officer’ thread…” and the fake obituary she was said to have posted to an online website. That was before she tried to drum up some kind of donations from NAMI. That’s what was found on the Web back then, anyway, and I still think that’s a terrible thing to do to an organization like NAMI. Those people are really crazy, and I’d hate to get that pack on my tail.

        Excerpt from an old email: ” Also, on Wonderland II, I seriously doubt that any such movie will ever be made due to the fact that the original Wonderland did not have a very wide release and didn’t make any money in the end. It will remain nothing more than a film with a cult like following.” I guess that’s where that ends.

        OK, a theory. What if some persons from Sacramento (probably easy to figure out who these were in the movie) were actually active police informants due to their wish to escape a pretty bad dope bust when they reached Southern California. This bust would have been in the Sacramento area. Either by manipulation from detectives, personal acquaintances, or unknown outside sources, they were guided to Southern California in their capacities as snitches. Then, either deliberately or by chance, they became involved in the Nash robbery. Now, the way this paid informant deal works, the snitch is the driving force behind the “crime.” He or she is the one who goads the unwitting “crew” into performing whatever act it is the detectives wish to happen, the “crime” itself. Here, for conversation’s sake, let it be the Nash residence be the robbery and Lind and Barbara be the instigators/informants. If Launius and Holmes were their initial targets, who knows, but according to the media of the ’80s and Wonderland, that’s how it ended. So Holmes, shown in the movie as the one wanting Nash hit for whatever reason, might have only been a dupe for the informants, who have to move fast to get the situation over with before they get caught either by the victims or by the cops should they wish to play even another angle to the whole mess, or wish to escape everyone by taking off their wires and riding into the sunset with all the cash they got from the robbery topped off with all the money they got from the detectives to work as snitches. Not so far fetched, you read things like this all the time with feds and snitches infiltrating motorcycle gangs.

        So there’s the robbery being all planned out with Lind maybe having a wire on him the whole time. Did you ever see anyone patting anyone else down in the movie? No? Perhaps there was law enforcement following the whole thing. Then the robbery happens, all the robbers are happy except Holmes, the robbed ones are quite angry, and, if there was law enforcement involved, they might be both happy and worried.

        Then (I think this was according to you, Critic), Lind goes to a motel with a prostitute and whoever it really was retaliated on the robbers, a retaliation done not with firearms, but with clubs of some kind (striated bars are the little dumbbell bars with the threaded ends). If Lind was an informant, then he would have been taken out of harm’s way after the robbery, and many prostitutes double their income by being informants, also (a quite untrustworthy group, though I’ve never known any); so that might really be true. If the involved law enforcement agency knew of (if not condoned) the retaliatory hit, they would have wished it to be sans guns not only to give the victims some kind of chance to escape or phone for help, but also to keep the NRA off their backs as we all know by the media that whenever a violent crime happens that includes gun play, all the nation gets in an uproar. Keeping the hit free of firearms (and knives, thinking about it) also keeps it “clean,” an important point should anyone successfully snitch on the detectives themselves after all the dust settled. And that’s truly the most dangerous part: those kind of cops really don’t want to get caught.

        Shouldn’t be too hard to work that into your chapter, John, as that’s how it was back then. Nancy Reagan and “Just Say No!”

        So, isn’t that a terrible thought? Something like this, an horrendous crime that still resonates over 30 years later, possibly being the result of a police sting. And remember Holmes supposed to be a terrible snitch who told on everyone including his porn friends, too, so that whole “crime” involved an entire grouping of honestly terrible police informants. Incredibly, I’d read on the old boards comments like “Wow! I wonder what it was like to party with those guys back in the day!” It was a real bummer. “Summer, baby, bummer!”

        Plausible idea, isn’t it? And remember also the comments about Lind having to “return to Sacramento” shortly after the robbery. Probably to check in with whatever detective he was working with. Anyway, just tossing this whole post out for a critique.

        Critic, you and Boogie are the aficionados here. Is all this Wonderland III?

        And, anyway, my OPEC/Sammy Hagar story, who knows? I know I heard that song in ’73. The computer says ’84, but that may simply be more secret 37th Marines light shows. The Web’s infallible, isn’t it? Here today, gone the next. When was the first time you heard that song?

        • Mark C 8:00 am on November 1, 2014 Permalink

          All people on here far as I know you Anon4Now might known Lind the best.
          Not trying put you on spot or nothing like that, But I just wonder if you happen to heard this story before?

          Or anybody can tell me if they read this too.

          I was just checking few facts trying keep everything straight in my mind this morning & on Wiki & ran into this I never heard about before. Not sure post link or not but because rules, its under wonderland murders

          Lind nor McCourt were present for the wonderland attack, as Lind was consuming drugs with a male prostitute called Shilo Watts in a motel and McCourt was at home.

          That 1st time I heard that story. I thought Lind was with 2 female prostitutes ? Maybe was in Sac.?
          Who is Shilo Watts or should we even waste our time with this? Don’t know what to believe or not to believe.
          Not trying say nothing about Lind, him & Watts just might been drug users friends I have no clue if this even true.
          Where do these stories come from?
          No wonder I have trouble keeping this story straight. Its about as bad as Holmes different life stories he told.

    • localarts 6:26 pm on September 25, 2014 Permalink | Reply

      You know, if that were true I think Ronnie would have been proud him. Probably would not have forgiven the debts he owned them & the antique gun thing but Launius would have shown Holmes a little more respect.

    • Jayson 10:21 am on October 17, 2014 Permalink | Reply

      Hey John…I think you do an awesome Job of this blog…And I realize that there is only so much information that you can provide being that its so limited…but i am fascinated by the entire “wonderland” saga and I check your site daily hoping for a new read…Maybe you could post things or maybe things from your book more then once every couple months…thanks

    • Patrick 8:20 pm on February 5, 2015 Permalink | Reply

      John has anyone seen the transcripts or rough copy of the book 4 on the floor by Tom Lang and Nills G ? In your interview w Kevin Deverral he mention Nills gave him a copy, can we get a copy as well? I did some searching on Bill Vlick and found his phone number and address in Vegas, tried calling to do a phone interview but his phone was not operable. Will keep you posted. Still want to get w Eddie before he dies and unsure how to reach him other than going to his cond and knocking on door? I have called several companies registered under his name in Cali all to no avail? Any suggestions? I would like to do my book or transcript for a show on Eddie.

    • Anon4Now 8:53 pm on May 31, 2020 Permalink | Reply

      Old thread, doesn’t look like anyone’s posted on this for a while.

      Cassie, if I’m remembering right, was supposed to have been related to David Lind. If Cassie was willing to take a DNA test from Ancestry, YSEQ, or Family Tree or the like, I’m buying. There’s ways to get a kit to that person without jeopardizing anyone’s privacy or safety.

      Any results are private, no need to share with anyone that person doesn’t wish to. But it’s an interesting concept, John.

      That old Lions Gate board was something. I called Lions Gate one day asking about it, I was told there was never any such thing from that movie studio. I was at work, I was in an auto accident later that day in the work vehicle.

      All a long time ago now. Both Governor Browns are gone now but Sacramento doesn’t seem to change too fast. Between the two they had state politics pretty well wrapped up for near 3/4 of a century.

      Anyhow, you have my email, John. If genetic testing is interesting to any of your people that were related to David (or even Barbara, now that I think about it), please write.

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