Thanks to critic for this gem from the past… around 1989ish, just in time for Tracy to get protection from LA County and anyone else before/during the first Nash-Diles trial.
$48.72
Another thing Tracy was caught forging was more prescriptions, pre-Wonderland.
On the afternoon of June 29, 1981… the gang were celebrating the Nash score, and a worried Tracy McCourt was phoning for a taxi so he could go home to his shitty apartment on Lemp St. in North Hollywood.
About sixty years earlier, this was going on at the Overlook…
![IMG_0319[1]](https://wonderland1981.files.wordpress.com/2016/06/img_03191.jpg)
John & Dawn were getting ” way high ” as Dawn would later way. I believe she also said they went to a sea food place and ordered hush puppies… Probably Long John Silvers. Hard to believe its been 35 years!
From Sharon’s nine page outline, obtained by Mike Sager back in 1988. She had first given the outline to the LA Times and the television program “A Current Affair”. I got it from a college project posted online. Credit to Elon Green.
It’s an amazing read. Just some tidbits:
John did poor in school, spent most of his leisure time roaming the woods of rural Ohio – hunting/fishing. John was also into furniture and home repair/remodeling. Besides school, these are things that Holmes had in common with Ron Launius, who was an outdoors-man and had father who was a very successful cabinetmaker – could explain a bit about their one-time friendship apart from drug use. Ron was the one who tolerated him around the house, while Billy despised and did not trust him (according to Tracy McCourt).
My notes:
Holmes was left near the scene and when he got to his car, he tore up his bloody clothes and put them in bins between Hollywood and Glendale. Sharon lived in Glendale, where he was headed.
Mike Sager describes Sharon perfectly as the fifties-style wife, who would suffer for her husband, and she did. Marriage was still “for better or worse” and it got worse.
Holmes was arrested twice – in Ventura and New Jersey. He was an informant for 7-8 years. He also ran the payroll for the porn shoots, delivering cash, etc. to the sets.
John’s oldest brother Eddie was “a hillbilly, felt to be stupid by John” and “never successful except for having kids.”
His brother Dale was “most envied, everything that John was not.”
John worked as a “shoplifting detective” at a store in the late 60s. This may have given him insight into how to be a good thief and how to spot opportunities to steal.
The nine page outline begins:
“There is nobody on the face of the earth who knew and understood him better than I, having spent 17 years of living and growing to adulthood with him. I, unlike him have no reason to hide the truth about him and our life together.”
and ends with:
“His dream was to become rich & famous. How truly ironic to realize at the end of his life, that the selling of his body & spirit and the destruction of his soul had rendered him infamous, pitiable, and alone, and away from those who loved him for what he once was and for what he could have been.”
Sharon’s own handwriting
Great stuff — thanks. Would love to see that outline in its entirety.
John,
Glad to see you back in the saddle again with your KICK ASS website digging up even more in depth info on Holmes and the WONDERLAND killings. Back in 1980 and 81 I was an 18 YO Marine stationed at Camp Pendelton about 60 miles down the coast and we used to hang out in the LA/Hollywood area a lot on the weekends. I remembber both The 7 Seas and the Starwood. Never went into the 7 Seas but did go to the STARWOOD on several occaisions.
Thinking back on this now 35 years later I wish I had paid more attention to what was going on There and then….LOL!
Thanks Ken.
In ’81, I was in fifth grade. We were having dinner in front of the TV in the living room, like we always did, either watching Carol Burnett Show or the news. I remember the murders being mentioned on the national news.
The Starwood was MAGIC!!!**
Great stuff, John! It’s interesting to read Sharon’s own words. Just a couple of thoughts re: your notes. Regarding the “bloody” clothes. In one of her accounts made to the L.A. Times in April 1988, Sharon said that John had come to Glendale, gone into their bedroom, and “crawled into bed in his bloody clothes.” According to Sharon, John had no explanation as to the state of his clothes other than having been in “an acccident.” If this is indeed the case, it begs the question whether John discarded his clothing en route between Hollywood and Glendale. There is also the possibility/probability of him having left blood stains in his car — fresh from the crime scene. Did he discard his clothes prior to getting into his vehicle? As we know, there are/were varying accounts provided by Sharon, Dawn, (John), and also Bill Amerson, who claimed that Holmes had (also) visited him following the murders.
A comment about John’s older brother Dale. He might have been revered, yet when he received a parting antique gift sent from John while John was dying in the Veteran’s hospital, Dale destroyed it in a most violent manner. I understand there were many emotions at play, but I do question that kind of behaviour. Dale is also (likely) responsible for omitting John’s name from their mother’s obituary. It wasn’t David. Like him or despise him, John was family. Would his mother have wanted that?
It would have been fascinating had Sharon H. written a book.
Does anyone know if John’s older brother Eddie is still alive?
I believe Dale is still alive and lives in Pataskala.
I passed through the town a couple of years ago but thought better of asking around about the family.
Interesting stuff. My brother was getting his MD from USC, doing jail rounds, another doctor,
I think he was named Zook, introduced Holmes to him behind bars saying he was a movie star.
My brother didn’t realize who the “movie star” was for weeks. It was all over the news, strange
seeing Christine Lund or other LA newscasters referring to “JOhnny Wadd.” What memories.
Porn was everywhere. Now you can’t even show tits in a movie, everything has been Disneyfied.
Kevin Deverell and I spoke yesterday for 45 minutes. Kevin was serving in the US Navy aboard the aircraft carrier USS Forrestal when his father died.
This is a true crime discussion forum. The whole point is to discuss details and find out the truth. The real story and the back-story so to speak. The visitors and posters at this blog feel compassion for the departed, because we have all had someone close to us lost to drugs, crime, or loved ones who got mixed up with the wrong crowd. In Wonderland, the truth about those involved was elusive in this case from the very beginning. It is nice to finally begin to find out the truth. In the decades since the 80s, some of the key figures (Thorson, Schiller) have even changed their stories somewhat. Erroneous details, exaggerations and accusations have consistently been thrown around by the media, sensationalized TV shows and so on. Thus, it is nice to start finding out the truth and setting the record straight. Thanks to Nils and Kevin, Jill Nelson and blog contributors for helping me out in this arena. The goal of this blog from the beginning was to gain exposure, through genuine discussion with key people, and possibly do a book or “real” documentary. If you’re new here, use the Search button because some of the highlights include contributions from Holmes author, Jill C. Nelson, Nils Grevillius, Julia Negron (ex-wife of Three Dog Night singer, Chuck), Lee who worked at the Starwood and knew Eddie Nash. There is also the close family friend of Tracy McCourt, the widow of Ron Launius’ friend, Carroll Evan Sherrill, among others. Go to Podcasts in the drop down menu if you want to listen to my interview from last year with Wonderland investigator and private eye, Nils Grevillius. Thanks for stopping by, but please don’t leave comments in anger or use curse words.
Stream the interview here:
Play or Download the mp3 audio file here:
Also included is a photo of Billy Deverell and Paul Kelly, circa 1960s. Billy was 27 years old in this photo. Thanks again, Kevin!
Billy Deverell and Paul Kelly
re: Billy’s 13 arrests. Would that not be public record? I’m pretty sure that info would be available to prove or disprove, at least the arrests and any possible convictions.
While this is possible if you know someone, it’s pretty impossible to walk in or phone a police station or Sheriff’s office and say you want someone’s criminal records. Even if they are deceased. Even if you are family. Basically in this case, I guarantee that one cop told a reporter this number, and it was said once, and then got reprinted over and over again by the newspapers.
The Freedom of Information Act is a joke. Especially if the clerk is too lazy to even fulfill your request. I have numerous requests over a year old with the prison systems, military records people, a Sheriff’s dept, state police, etc. Civil service has gone downhill, worse than it ever was before. Even if you pay them their fee. Good luck.
Hey Jenn – Friend me on Facebook – ask John how to find me.
John – you make some damn good points.
Oh no doubt…..I have personal experience with media taking one thing, blowing it waaaaaay out of proportion and spreading it everywhere…..
Chris Cox statement somewhat dubunks Thorsons allegations about what happened to Holmes after Nash found out it was him who set up the robbery. I think Chris Cox said he heard that Nash had been robbed, and went up to Dona Lola to see Eddie. He said when he walked in the front door he saw John Holmes stand by the bar.
That’s a big contrast from Thorson’s account. “Diles burst thru the front door with Holmes by the back of the neck and marched him straight to the bedroom. Thorson said they beat the hell out of Holmes and walked out of the bedroom an hour later with Holmes by the back of the neck with one hand and a pipe in the other.
It’s like you were saying John, Thorson may have been just as big a liar as Holmes
So according to Kevin and Nils, back in 2001 a 71 yr old Eddie Nash had a rough time at Terminal Island prison.
Nils is the Man.
Is Paul the guy who took a dump on Joy’s coffee table or something like that?
I think that is what Kevin told me before, but it was a b-day cake. Paul must have been the life of the party.
Someone left a comment a while ago that we need to get a life. Could not agree more. At the same time it’s such a fascinating story.
Ah, screw ’em! It is a fascinating story! There is so much more to these people then “they did drugs, they were bad criminals, they were murdered” the end. So, if we need to get a life, what were they doing on here as well??
You’re right, it is.
Funny! 🙂 I was just checking this story on Facebook and my girlfriend peers over my shoulder and says, “GOOD GOD ARE YOU STILL READING THAT STUFF!??! THEY’RE ALL DEAD…” haha
I love the story about the Hawk. So sweet.
Cool interview. Thanks John. – I love when he asked why you were so interested in the story.
Awesome! Love this interview! Thanks John!
Final comment. I agree with Dream. We have heard all the speculation. The newspapers made sure we knew about all the dirt that sensationalized the story. Thank you Kevin for showing us the other side of your dad and letting us see the human guy that some people are unable to grasp. Why the fascination? hmmm good question. Why are people so fascinated with Jack the Ripper, or Dahlia?
For me, the fascination has got to do with the lead pipes. Of course John’s double role and all, but the led pipes nails Nash as the stereotype godfather that he was, not only did he show no mercy, he wanted to send a message in the underworld of LA. Tom Lange points it out in the British documentary.
As bouncer at some of Nash’s clubs, Diles was known to wield a pipe fitted with a rubber bicycle handlebar grip to threaten unruly customers. He also chased a man from one of the clubs one time, emptying his gun at the man across 6 lanes of traffic at 2 in the afternoon. His brother, Sammy once pistol whipped the brother of a city councilman at the Kit Kat Club, for which he served 2 year I believe for assault.
Wow, these people were hard core. I can see Diles emptying his gun in broad daylight too and not EVEN worrying about it. Dang…..
I think Eddie Nash was the most dangerous person of all the people that been profiled on this blog. Eddie had a vast amount of resources available at his disposable. If I were to rank me:
1) Eddie Nash
2) Horace “Big Mac” McKenna
3) Ron Launius
4) John Curtis Holmes
John Holmes did far worse than Billy ever did.
A lot of people are interested in true crime. That’s why books are labeled “true crime”. Its written on the book and there’s a true crime section in the book store.
Kevin is a good man and has my respect. I am glad the back story is included here, of real lives of real people. Good work, Weghorst.
Fantastic as always! Without John’s dedication and drive, some of the mysteries surrounding the people and events that led up to the murders would still be unknowns. It sounds like Billy was just a regular guy.
Went to work, paid his bills, and raised a family then fell into drugs, unfortunately. The same thing can probably be said about Joy.
Without going into alot of detail, if you remove John Curtis Homes from the equation, it changes the course of everyone’s life forever. Including, Eddie Nash. And that’s a fact.
I agree!
Some asshole started shit with me on Facebook because I didn’t like his comments and the fact that he referred to himself as John Holmes. I asked if was also a sorry piece of shit and then it was on, lol. Sometimes I can’t keep my comments to myself and it gets me in trouble……Most of the time I try to be a very nice lady (My daughter’s saying “yeah, right, Mom.”
It was close to end of May I seen Billy a week before this all happened , Joy was the worse thing that ever happened to him
If Billy was under survallience , Why was that not a factor in catching his murderers?
Hi Darla. I think the police were aware of things at the house but it was not being watched 100% of the time.
I knew him all my life the Good,the Bad and the Ugly, Growing up he wasn’t like what ppl are saying and honestly, the Movie I call ” Bullshit”
I think the house was under surveillance not Billy specifically. The police were keeping tabs on who was coming and going in order to build a case. Joy was potentially looking at doing time already.
Yeah, the fuzz were probably checking out the house once in a while, but I doubt a team of narc’s were on the case full time.
I wonder whatever became of those antique Colt dueling pistols? Even back in 81 they would have been worth a fortune.
Does kevin live in Orange County? Didn’t u say garden grove ?
My pops works for Bragg crane n rigging . They totally test randomly idk about back then. Like kevin said That kind of work there is no way you could be on drugs. Too dangerous.
I’m not sure where.
John I showed my dad ur blog he loves it. He’s on it as we speak. He’s just as fascinated in wonderland as we are!He loves that song . Who’s song is it?!
Bette Davis Eyes by Kim Carnes. It was the #1 song on the charts in June & July 1981.
Hey Bonnie, sent him a message ❤
I kind of feel sorry for the actor who had the role as Tracy in Wonderland, if it is true they wrote him more or less out of the movie because of the real Tracy being a pain in the ass 😉
You mean George Leonardopoulos? LOL. Yes, his career also took a nosedive after the movie. He appeared in very little and also suffered a setback LOL
Its all McCourts fault, haha
..And what a terrible line and delivery too! Doesn’t he say something like “Sure thing boss!” as if he’s in a damn James Cagney gangster flick after one of the gang tells him he’s the wheelman. Makes we cringe whenever I see it. Almost as bad as that extra slapping his thigh to the music when Lind enters the house for the first time during the party scene. When you see how badly that guy is overacting it can never be unseen! LOL!
Every time I watch it I notice something like that, the thigh slapping or someone saying something cheesy…..
John Holmes died on this date in 1988. 3-13.
Yes, and he took alot of secrets with him. Anyone willing to speculate where Holmes is spending his days now?
Interestingly you can hear a hawk calling loudly on one of the Wonderland walk-through vids on YouTube.
Is Paul Kelly still alive?
Ken, nobody really knows. He’s be about 70+ now if he was alive.
John,
Here is a tidbit of information that I do not know if you are aware of if it is true…
Back when the movie WONDERLAND came out Lions Gate had a discussion board that a lot of people used to post at but it eventually got shut down due to all the crap that went on there. Anyway…..There was a lady from Canada who posted there.She was a painter by the name of Denise LafFrance who was planning to write and illustrate with her portraits of porn people a coffee table type book about the golden age of porn. She went on a trip to L.A. in order to meet a lot of the old time porn performers. She was wired in pretty tight with Cass Paley and he was making introductions to of her to people like Bob Chinn,Bill Margold etc…. After she got back from her trip I asked her how it went and what all she did while she was there and she related an interesting visit that she took with Bill Amerson to Glickman’s bail bond office there in L.A.. Glickman regaled her with old stories about Eddie Nash and also mentioned that an old friend of Ron Launius’s worked there with him but was not in at the time…..that friend of Launius’s was Paul Kelly. She said that her and Bill Amerson waited awhile for Kelly to get back but they had to leave when he hadn’t shown up after awhile so she never did actually meet him.
Do you by any chance know anything about a Hal Glickman/Paul Kelly connection?
I will ask Nils about Hal Glickman, if he is still around and such. In his investigation he found that Glickman’s wife may have given Holmes a ride home that fateful morning. Thanks for the lead, maybe it will open up some channels!
“In his investigation he found that Glickman’s wife may have given Holmes a ride home that fateful morning. Thanks for the lead, maybe it will open up some channels!”
John, this is information Tom Lange touched on briefly when we spoke with him. We didn’t use it verbatim in the book because it couldn’t be confirmed. He said he believed they (LAPD) located the car eventually, that had dropped Holmes off at Sharon’s or at Bill Amerson’s since both claimed on the record that John arrived at their homes during the early hours on July 1st. The distance between Glenwood and Sherman Oaks is not exactly a hop, skip, and a jump away — it’s approximately eleven miles — so it’s hard to imagine that Holmes arrived at both doorsteps even if he’d had a lift, unless he cloned himself. We asked Lange about the car when it was found, did it have blood in the interior. Lange couldn’t recall or wasn’t certain. He couldn’t commit either way.
The following are direct quotes from Tom Lange extracted from our September 2007 interview in which he references Dottie Glickman, Scott Thorson, Holmes and Nash. Some of it might be recycled information for readers, some of it not.
Tom Lange: “We had other witnesses too. We had Hal Glickman’s wife, who is also deceased, who is the one that supposedly drove the killers to the house. She was in hiding, you know, and there was a big rigamarole over that. She was in hiding and she died, too. Dottie Glickman was her name. We looked for the car and we spent hundreds and hundreds of man hours over the years on this thing. We found phony leads. She never really gave us specifics.”
Tom Lange: “We had Thorson’s car up at Nash’s house right after the murders. He said he overheard Diles beat up John. There’s always a little bit of truth to what someone says. When they’re impeached how much of what they say is true? How much do they embellish their statement for this reason or that reason? Books are written on that subject.”
Tom Lange: “The pressure was on John. We would have rather not filed a murder charge against John. We wanted him as a witness, but he would have to have been completely forthcoming. Say ‘Yes, I opened the door, I knew what they were going to do.’ And if you were in fear of your life, which he probably was, then that’s what you say. ‘I saw them go to the victims and I saw them beat the victims and they made me take some whacks, I had blood on me. I went to Sharon’s house and I went to Amerson’s house,’ wherever he went. ‘This is what I did and this is what I did with the clothing.’ He needed to make a bold confession, not little admissions where he ended up playing a game. If he did that, then he would have been a witness and given immunity. But instead he played the game. Therefore, we had to put this so-called domino theory into effect to pressure him.”
Tom Lange: “Nash was a suspect and certainly the motive was very strong and we’d done a background on all these people. We were finding out that Nash had been very insulated in the city for all these years, like the Teflon Don thing. Nobody could ever nail him. And there was a reason for that. You had political corruption, and you had police corruption, and he was a very insulated individual. This was rampant. That’s why he walked for so many years, and basically, he got away with anything he wanted. So, he was a hard nut to crack.
Of course, then we found out that the feds were investigating him and there were dirty feds involved. Corrupt feds. They had come to our department behind our back and said that we were dirty and we were in bed with Ed Nash — forcing our department to investigate us when they were the ones that were involved — thereby derailing the investigation for a number of years. Which is exactly what they wanted to do.”
Nils Grevillius said Dottie Glickman gave Holmes a ride as well. You know you’re dealing with a very, very big fish (Nash) when everybody either goes into hiding or wants witness protection.
I remember I once said on this blog, Nash’s power was far reaching and Jill’s quote from Lange would seem to support this plus Nils thought the more fascinating aspect about the whole thing was what appeared to be a cover up, it would sure seem that way.
It would be interesting to know just how far up the ladder this went?
Thanks Jill. Amazing. Those tapes belong in the Smithsonian right near the 75 Granada and John & Sharon’s Malibu. This seemingly soft corruption by the cops or powers that be is underrated / understated. I’m sure there was more payola floating around from Ed to some judges or cops. I doubt he was slipping under the radar because he buying drinks and dinner for these people.
I just finished reading Chuck Negron’s book, 3 Dog Nightmare. Kevin sent me a copy. The Wonderland section is brief, but very telling. What Chuck says about Joy and Billy backs up what Kevin said in a way. Joy was owed by just about everyone, even Chuck and Julia Negron. Thus, Billy was collecting for her, shortly after they began dating. Kevin said to me this past weekend “You did not want to owe Billy Deverell money”. Before Billy was around, one of Joy’s suppliers named Jack had slapped around Joy because of money that Chuck and some others owed.
Chuck would trade Joy for antique furniture, jewelry, etc. Chuck was also arrested twice while driving away from Joy’s apartment in Brentwood. She must have been watched for some time. One time, Julia picked up Chuck at Joy’s because Chuck was in no condition to drive. Julia fell asleep and they got into a bad car wreck. Chuck also says in the book that Fat Howard shot up his house over an unpaid drug debt. Chuck did a counter-threat to Fat Howard Cook, and I guess it scared him and Cook told Joy to tell Chuck that don’t worry, we’re all square. Although delinquent on debts, Chuck didn’t take any crap, and once burned up a dealer’s garage who had taken his Benz.
The Wonderland chapter is very brief but awesome. The only mistake was saying Billy was an ex-con, which he was not. Chuck called Holmes a “worn out loser” or something like that and said he was friends with all 4 people who died that night. He would have been there but was sleeping off a dopesick day. The guys at the house must have thought he would stop by, thus the Three Dog Night album “Harmony” was out, and on the turntable, according to the crime scene.
I was hoping Chuck would mention Bill “Ricco” Vlick but he never did.
Great stuff. I wonder if Joy kept a ledger for accounts receivable & accounts payable? I’m only half kidding but you would think Joy or Billy would have kept some kind of record of who owed what. Even though what they were doing was illegal, it was in essence a business.
Wow John well I guess I could’ve got my question answered by coming to this blog site I didn’t realize this is going to take me days to go through I bet I could answer a lot of questions and get a lot of questions answered also good job
I didn’t know the Wonderland crew had such a following I guess my dad’s a little mini celebrity too bad he had to die to acquire it
Would LOVE to read that Wonderland chapter! Any chance you could put a scan of it up on this here blog?.. or perhaps some of the highlights?… We love you long time..;)
Kevin Deverell sound’s like a very nice person.
Been a pleasure just listen to him.
I too grew up around this time, did odd jobs around Starwood lived 1321 n. LAUREL ave. and all through Hollywood it’was a different time, black and white no in between if you weren’t an erner you weren’t part of any scene the drugs were different back then and so was the outcome when you go up agenist anyone with influence or power, like a drug power will get you took out the game as it did for ANYONE who went to Nash’s spot expecting a different out come, my best friend ended up in pieces, i kept myself Respectful and humble and maybe that’s why I’m still living I learned you never F^%#K with a mans #1 Money, #2 drugs, #3 pussy, and #4 manhood, period as in the case of the WONDERLAND gang that wasn’t the case and like any addict 1 is too many and a 1,000 just a tease, my heart goes out to the families who suffered for we as parents never want to see our beloved children stuck in a WONDERLAND TRAP HOUSE. Been there done that!!! Trust me. I’m also a writer and write on living within the streets of LOS ANGELES HOLLYWOOD addicted not only to the drugs, but to the whole lifestyles. The thing that pulls me in a different direction is I know if I was to hit someone as big as Nash, not even a thought would occur in my twisted thinking!! I would of made sure I burryed myself away where I would of panicked myself to the surface as any drug use plays a roll to where that much stash would have ANYONE not making good choices, I too like most am intreged by LAUREL CYN KIRKWOOD. LOOKOUT MTN. Area,” I was hiking when I was young and came accross a decomposed body up off of Kirkwood before you hit the CYN store me and another kid we were dirt bike riding bikes, the police said the person was shooting dope and ODed on the spot, such a horrible smell. I think it was early 70s way before anything up the way. It left me with a feeling that life isn’t taken seriously in those hills I grew up in partied in it always left me with a feeling I still hold on to today a fear that if I’m not on my pees and Q’s life can be snatched away eaither by my own hands or by another’s. Good piece john keep us posted I would diffitnitly like to read more.., I’m also on twitter @oglepke an original HOLLYWOOD REBEL. 1963 2014
Well I agree on some and I gotta say Bullshit on other parts of it!! Well I may have been raised by one if not a couple of em!
I am still looking for any info on Paul Kelly or Rico Vlick. There is nothing online about either guy outside of this website. I can’t even find court cases or testimony from Paul Kelly on any case, same with Rico Vlick. I was able to find his case with Rosemary McKee but not much nor the outcome. He passed away in a nursing home in Vegas. I tracked down the home and spoke to nurses who knew him. Said he was quiet, never had one visitor in 3 years. Died with no funeral nor headstone. He is in a unmarked grave. I’ve done background on Rosemary and get nothing, No relatives, children, nothing. People associated with Rico and Rose are dying, same with Wonderland, the associates or people who would and could give us great info for a movie or documentary want nothing to do with this case of these people. Anyone who knew Paul Kelly, Rosemary McKee, Bill “Rico”Vlick please reach out. Patrick E 414-306-1667-text me or email-patricke@efreightusa.com
Thanks Patrick.
We also lost Cherokee Hershman, an old NoCal drug buddy of Ron’s. He later cleaned up his act and became a trucker and grandpa.
Well, when I walked in the house, you know, after I had been there a little while, John was rattling off about “long time money and lots of cocaine,” you know.
So McCourt and the guys(?) would go with John and case the place…wait in the car like Dawn for hours.
Well, we planned it. We made a couple of dry runs. We had to call it off a couple of times. One time everybody was going to forget it and me and Billy were going to do it and John kept going in the house and doing so much cocaine he wouldn’t come out for 45 minutes, three or four hours later, sometimes.
We stopped and he told us to get him. He went like this (shaking his fist out the window): “Get him!” So we went to the house and did, you know.
Tucking guns away when they came out of Nash’s. What a sight!
Well, they were carrying a shower curtain with something in it and a briefcase and everybody was tucking guns in their pants ad what have you.
And then Holmes’ attorney Earl Hanson chimes in and Tracy confuses him with his answers:
Q: Mr. McCourt, prior to the time that this robbery took place in the home of Mr. Nash had you been living, sir, at the Wonderland address?
A: Not on a regular basis. No. I just had been staying there about five days and when that happened, no, I wasn’t living there.Q: But you had been staying there? Is that correct?
A: Yes. But not living there. No. I had no clothes there. I had no personal items there. No, I was not living there.Q: I understand that but what I am asking you is: Were you spending your nights there?
A: Well, I spent three nights there. If that is spending my nights there, yes, I spent three nights there in the house.Q: By that –
A: No, I wasn’t living there.Q: I understand that.
A: Uh-huh.Q: But you had gone there and you had spent at least three nights there? Is that correct?
A: Yeah.Q: Were you sleeping on the couch or the bed?
A: On the couch. Yes. On the bed.
Tracy had met Susan Launius before, or on the day of June 30, when she arrived and before the murders?
Q: Who did you know at that house on Wonderland?
A: Bill, Joy, Ronnie – I didn’t – I hardly barely knew his ex-wife and I didn’t know –well – I met Barbara.
Devastated, Tracy had to force the thoughts of his friends being murdered out of his mind.
A: I believe it was two days and I – I – I had a bit of a hassle trying to forget some of this so I have to, you know, search in my head to remember it.
Q: I understand.
A: It was a shock.
So Lind called him “Titmouse Tracy”. Probably to his face, so he does not seem fond of Lind at all.
Q: With regard to those two days and nights, I think you said, of constant planning, who was present during that planning?
A: John, me, Ronnie, Billy and Joy and the girls, but they didn’t get involved, really. They were just there. It was just us fellows but then, all of a sudden, David Lind pops up from nowhere. I don’t know where he came from.Q: Did he more or less show up at the last –
A: Yes. He did.Q: And he kind of somehow invited himself into the group?
A: Yes. Right. Exactly.
Lind states in his testimony that Tracy had a gun. Tracy says he never had a gun.
Q: Is there any particular reason you were designated as the driver?
A: Well, I was originally supposed to – before this other party took his gun back – I was supposed to go in the house. It just turned out, you know. I was going to go in there with a gun.Q: Suddenly you ended up without a gun?
A: Right.
Liquid Band-Aid. I didn’t even know that stuff was around back then.
Q: I see. Was anything done, for instance, with regard to putting some substance on the fingertips?
A: Yes there was.Q: When was that done?
A: Ron put some crap on my hands. I don’t know what it was.
When there at Nash’s with Holmes or casing the place with the others. He was at both doors?
Q: You never went into the Nash residence?
A: I just made it to the back door one time. The front door another time. But I never had been in it, no.
Reading the newspaper. That never looks suspicious. I once asked a guy why he was parked in front of my house reading a newspaper all day. He said he was a private investigator trying to catch some guy cheating on his wife.
Q: At some point did you hear a shot?
A: Yes, I did. I was reading the newspaper.
He did something. He got nervous! stayed right there.
Q: As a result of that shot did you do anything?
A: Yeah. I got nervous but I didn’t do anything else because I stayed right there.
Tracy got nervous/frightened upon seeing a car that looked like Nash’s out on Wonderland, so he left in a cab back to North Hollywood…
Q: When you came back to the Wonderland address and after the loot was divided up did you stay there for some period of time before you left?
A: Not too long. As soon as the money was divided up I left, about five minutes later.
They were supposed to move out but never did. The coroner’s report lists Ronnie’s hair as brown or dark brown, so I think he may have died his hair. Speculation… Nash lived 5 minutes away and had seen their faces.
A: Me and Billy and Ronnie promised each other we were all going to move the same, next day, and it didn’t happen.
Q: Were you all going to move?
A: Yeah.Q: Move out of the residence?
A: Right.Q: Were you going to move out?
A: We were all going to move out.Q: Well, did you all move out?
A: No.
If Bill Vlick was the supplier for Joy, then this statement confuses me. Vlick was caught with heroin in June, 1980 so I think by 1981 he had quit dealing in heroin and the gang was forced to go to other dealers. Also, maybe Vlick would not accept trade or collateral for drugs. Maybe he wanted cash, so the gang had to go to Nash and others. I’m really confused by the gang’s money situation. I think they were really broke, it was the end of the month, and rent was due.
Q: That residence was used as a location for sale of narcotics. Isn’t that correct?
A: It was also used as a place to live.Q: I understand that. But was it a place where narcotics were being sold?
A: Not that much narcotics. Most of the narcotics was – did prior to that robbery we had to go out and get somewhere.
And then Earl Hanson is mad at him again…
Q: All I’m asking you –
A: No. There wasn’t that much sales going on there. That I saw.
Only the “niche” would be allowed in. Like Chuck Negron, people who knew Joy, or Ronnie’s dealer buddies:
Q: Would anybody have any trouble, to your knowledge, getting into that house?
A: Sure, they would. Definitely. Ronnie, the people that did come and go were all of a certain, shall we say, niche, or whatever, you know? I mean, if you weren’t in that little clique you didn’t just walk in that house or you were not even around none of those people.
Who is Mike? Ron knew him.
Q: After the robbery did you have an occasion to go back to that residence?
A: Yes. One time.Q: To your knowledge did someone named Mike go?
A: Yes, but Mike had been up there before. That is the only reason he ever was able to, and that is the only reason I even took him up there, because he had been up there before, you know.Q: But, in any event –
A: And Ron knew him.
Jimmy Vegas…
Q: Do you recall telling Tom Lange on the next day which was Tuesday you were staying in an apartment over on Lemp Street?
A: Yes. I was staying there.Q: Did you see someone named Jimmy Vegas?
A: Yes, I saw Jimmy Vegas there.Q: Do you recall telling that to Tom Lange?
A: Yes, I think I did.
Ron Coen objects to a question by Hanson, and Tracy fires this off before the judge can respond to the objection:
THE WITNESS: I said there was no heavy dope. There was a little bit of weed being sold there but there wasn’t no China White traffic. That is hard enough to find in the first place.
Hanson has no more questions, but Coen asks a few more, including this one:
Q: When you mentioned you have to be a particular type of clique to enter that residence, based upon staying there and knowing the residents as you did, was John Holmes the type of person that Ron Launius would allow inside the house?
A: Yeah.
“he told us to get him. He went like this (shaking his fist out the window)” WTF was Holmes thinking!! The whole idea boarded on shear madness. The most accurate picture of what went down is within McCourt testimony & Lind in 1990. I think Tracy wanted to be respected and treated like the others.
Johnny was thinking “we’re gonna score some dope”. If you think of this caper in terms of The Godfather, Tracy was Fredo, Ronnie was Sonny, and John was Hyman Roth. He played his part beautifully. Eddie was Michael Corleone, ruthless.
Yup, pretty dumb. John was short sighted and only had his eye on the dope prize. How did he for a moment think he was gonna get away with it? It’s utterly confounding to say the least! Nash & Diles would’ve taken all of 2 seconds to work out who the “genius” behind the robbery was.. even if Ron never actually yelled out “Johnny Wadd says hello” on the way out…
This is why your typical drug addict does not live a long life. All they think about is the dope, it blinds them to everything else and that includes logic.
I’ve dealt with addicts in the past who… in the pursuit of their next hit, will be incredibly creative, thoughtful, and industrious. But all of those qualities are solely focused on the immediate issue at hand – getting high. After that, nothing else gets consideration. Not dying from an OD, not getting killed by the dealer they want to rip off, not losing their families. On the Nash hit, John, Ronnie, David, and Billy were equally stupid.
As odd as it seems, the most “challenged” player in this scene was Tracy, who had the good sense to “make like Gretzky and get the puck out of there” after the Nash home invasion. Which made him the smartest member of the gang, at least on that day.
I’d like to thank you for the efforts you have put in
penning this blog. I’m hoping to check out the same high-grade blog posts from you
later on as well. In fact, your creative writing abilities
has encouraged me to get my own, personal website now 😉
Howdy! I know this is kind of off topic but I was wondering which blog platform are you using for this website?
I’m getting tired of WordPress because I’ve had
problems with hackers and I’m looking at options
for another platform. I would be awesome if you could point me in the direction of
a good platform.
Thanks to Betty for sharing some insight into the private world of Tracy McCourt. Actually, I cannot thank you enough. I had tried to contact Joni and their daughter before, but was not able to get in touch with them for an interview.
Here’s what Betty had to say:
I knew Tracy very well while he attended EKU. I was a den mother of sorts to him & his college roommates. He loved to come to our house to be a part of a southern, country style family. When Tracy first spoke of his involvement in the Eddie Nash caper we thought he was really full of it only to find he was telling the truth.
He repeatedly landed in jail in Madison County, but was always released to our amazement. I later learned it was because the LA police told Madison Co. to let him go. I guess when they arrested him here & ran his name his record came up which prompted them to contact Orange County. They eventually came to EKU pulled him out of class & offered him money & a new identity to testify in the trial against Nash.
They flew him & wife Joni out to LA. Put them up during the trial. When it was over he got nothing they promised him. That was when the family packed up & moved to Colorado. He was always looking over his shoulder & justifiably so, He spoke rarely of the murders, it pained him deeply. He did speak of the ordeal in depth on more then one occasion. I knew the name of his daughter & have been in contact with her. We talked about the movie & I commented on the very small acclaim they gave his character. She replied w/ information that sounded so Tracy McCourt. She told me that her dad couldn’t leave (the film) well enough alone & kept buggin’ the crap out of them for more money for his part or information he could give. He called them so much that he pissed them off and cut his recognition of involvement to what we saw on the screen. So typical Tracy never being satisfied, always wanting more. Those of us who knew him here had a genuine fondness for him & his crazy ways. He could be extreme with his desire for drugs & alcohol, but I reckon’ that’s what addicts do.
I used to take him to his grandmother’s house several counties over where I met his family on more then 1 occasion. His mother made stained glass. I saw several beautiful pieces she had made. His grandmother was wonderful!!! His brother was there as well but his name slips my memory. Last time I heard from Tracy was in ’97. He called from Colorado wanting to stop & visit on his way to Florida. He never showed. I wondered about him from time to time. It was only when I made contact w/ his daughter that I learned of his passing. She told me it was Hep C. That was no surprise to me. RIP TRACY. LOL He loved to think he looked like Huey Lewis!!!!
Wow. Thanks again, Betty. You are Awesome!
I read that the movie shot in like 20 days, and so no wonder James Cox ran a tight ship, did things his way, and already had his angle for the movie via David Lind, Sharon and Dawn’s version of events. That’s too bad. Tracy’s view would have helped a lot because his testimony is truthful to the Wonderland reality, the way the gang was, the personas of each person, the drugs involved, the way that the house was run. His testimony is for Holmes prelim trial is posted here on this blog. Go check it out.
This is amazing John, as usual! No one, NO ONE can get the inside info like you can. I feel HORRIBLE for Tracy. Although some implied he wasn’t as bright as the rest of the Wonderland gang who went to college? Who saw the Buick watching the house & escaped with his life? WTF, why would the LAPD do that? Just because a conviction wasn’t optained? What a jackass move, way to go LAPD.
In the credits for the movie… via IMDB… they even list his character as some alias or other name. The character is not even listed as Tracy McCourt! He must have upset someone on the crew, prob a creative type or the director or producer.
His character is listed as Tommy Conway in the movie. They stiffed him on the credit.
Yes, Tracy took a cab from Wonderland back to North Hollywood on the day of the robbery. I guess Ron was going to use the stolen Ford Granada as his wheels. I looked hard on the last part of the crime scene footage out in the street but could only make out that big Dodge van behind Billy’s yellow truck. No Ford Granada, but it was dark was probably parked up the street. If Ronnie picked up Susan the next day in his stolen car, then that is pretty funny. Based on news reports, she either flew down… I think that Nils said she flew down too, or other reports say she was living in Tujunga, which is about a 1 to 2 hours drive northeast of the Wonderland house location and north of Burbank and Glendale.
Great work John! I knew Tracy testified in Nash’s 1990 trial but this adds a whole new dimension. I bet Tracy was pissed when the DA didn’t honor their word. Tracy McCourt is perhaps the most overlooked character in this entire saga and yet he was the only one smart enough to get out of Dodge before the ensuing massacre.
That’s awesome!
This site kicks ass. Nowhere else can you get this kind of scoop. As to Tracy getting stiffed on a Witness Protection gig… I’m guessing that he left out some details when he was on the witness stand and that caused the deal to be withdrawn. But really in the end, how valuable could his testimony have been? The robbery was already stipulated by the time the case went to trial, and Tracy could not testify anything about the murder since he was not there. I’m calling BS on Tracy saying he was promised a WPP deal and it was unreasonably reneged upon. (Not calling BS on Betty, just Tracy).
The bribed juror thing really plays here…in the first mistrial. Without that, Nash may have rec’d the death penalty. The prosecution was soooo close. But Nash, again, was too teflon…and his PI’s and cohorts found a way. Bribe a poor 18 yr old black girl from south central. Total Nash!
Yes, that 1990 trial was a death penalty case as I recall. Eddie probably would have given that 18yo a blank check if she would have asked.
I wonder what if anything, McCourt and Lind said to each other, if they met at the Nash trial(s). I can’t picture Lind being put up at the Hotel Belmont or a fancy place. Maybe he requested the Cecil Hotel LOL!
Julia Negron said that Lange introduced her to Susan Launius in the green room waiting area for witnesses at the Holmes trial. Susan was quiet and kept her head down. The state had Julia on call to be a possible witness at Nash’s trials but she was never contacted again. In 1981, when cops came to her hills home around the corner from Wonderland showing her pics of Holmes and asking questions, she was shocked “I remember that guy!”
Thorson was an eyewitness to what happened with Holmes at Nash’s that night, allegedly. Thus, he got a witness protection deal and even a name change and moved to Florida. I think the prosecution misled Tracy, and with just his mostly indirect testimony about the house and robbery, the higher ups reneged on their promise to him. They were stacking their witness list is all. I guess Tracy testified at both instances of the Nash/Diles trials. The first being the bribed juror trial, the second was the red herring trial where the defense accused Paul Kelly of the murders…and the jury bought it.
I don’t think McCourt cared much for Lind with the way Dave treated him so I would image very little was said. I believe the only reason they had McCourt Testify was he could put Holmes at the Wonderland house (planning of the robbery) Lind testimony corroborates the robbery itself and Thorsen’s eyewitness account of the extraction of information form Homes at Dona lola would tie everything back to Nash.
Depend on what theory you believe in, Tracy McCourt is dead 6 foot under or Tracy is in Witness Protection Program.
What really is sad is if Huey Lewis was sick and could not preform that night concert, Ole Tracy could of step right in his place and took over his place in the band and fooled everybody they looked so much alike and Tracy would of make all the fans happy.
Or more than likely what really could happen, Tracy could of stayed in the Holliday Inn Express last night and in his own mind he could replace Huey Lewis and did the whole next night performance for the sick Mr. Lewis. and made everybody happy passing himself off as Huey Lewis.
I read that about this subject and what his Den Mother @ EKU said about Tracy .That will most likely be stuck in my mind for rest of my life.
Ole Den mother came up with a very good real true life Tracy McCourt quote on that one.
Well, shit. I’m at a loss for words.
A few months ago, when I said that Tracy McCourt might be the most perplexing character in the Wonderland saga, I didn’t know it would come true.
Tracy lived in eastern Kentucky during the 80s/early 90s after he left L.A. I have his addresses and he even got married twice in Kentucky. Today, I stumbled across a tip at Dawn Schiller’s message board and it gave me a hunch. Here’s what the guy said:
“Back in the mid/late 1980s, I was finishing up at Eastern Kentucky University, and we had a guy on our floor who claimed to be Tracy Ray McCourt – and claimed to have been a part of this… Had a bunch of jailhouse tats, including some sort of Beatles thing on his chest (IIRC – might have been a different band). Had a serious rap for the (considerably younger than he was) ladies, and laid it on pretty thick… Could this have been the same guy?
So here we go…
In the 1987 EKU yearbook, the “Milestone”….Tracy is listed on page 268. You can look for yourself right here.
That’s him. I’m checking with the school to find out more.
I’m proud of him. What The Hell?
“Milestone” at EKU. 1987.
Wow – look at that mustache! So how old was he during the robbery? 16 or 17?
Yes, localarts nailed it.
I think Tracy may have fallen back into drugs after his last 2 failed marriages. And when he moved back to Colorado… And the arrest and jailtime tell the rest. However, it’s said that he ran a phone store franchise or phone kiosk at the end of his life.
Besides myself and Kato Kaelin, he’s the youngest college freshman since Rodney Dangerfield!
He was in his early 30’s as the wheel man for the gang. McCourt tried to make something of himself and turn his life around, too bad it ended the way it did. I think I posted here along time ago saying McCourt’s version of events along with Lind’s account in 90 were what I believed to be the most acurate version of events. I guess deep down McCourt was trying to do the right thing.
Great find John!!
Man, that’s a moustache worthy of Johnny Wadd himself ! Tracy indeed is a perplexing figure. It seems that by ’87 he had turned his life around; in 1981 he appeared gaunt and weak, while his yearbook picture shows a vibrant man headed towards success.
But then later he stood accused of stabbing his disabled brother in the neck and kicking his mother’s ass. I wonder what went wrong? At some point I heard that he had a quite successful mobile phone franchise. I have to guess that he must have fallen off the wagon and old demons came back
Does anybody know if he had to testify in the two Nash/Diles trials?
Maybe Keith knows, I’m not sure about both trials. Rodger Jacobs could not get either trial transcripts due to them being lost. Stupid politics and lazy clerks!
I just think Tracy had a couple bad marriaged and thus fell back into drugs… Either pills or the hard stuff. I don’t know, except for the results. Assault and possession of Schedule II Controlled Substances. Whatever those are…maybe some painkillers or something. Hook me up, Tracy! LOL
Schedule II covers a lot of territory. Codeine, morphine, meth, opium, coke, methadone, oxy, Ritalin… heck even some anaesthetics are in there.
Yes. McCourt testified in the 1990 trial. I have no idea about the second trial in 91.
I’ve done crazier shit, but I will look into formally requesting BOTH trial transcripts, in their entirety. Knowing the system though, I’m sure it’s $7 per page. I have a PayPal slush fund, bring it on Lance Ito!!
Small World Eastern KY U is only about 50 miles from my house, Charlie Manson grow up in that general area too mainly Ashland KY & Meechan WV by way of the prisons he was in mind you.. I think Charlie was caught in Ca. in a stolen WV car. That got him in the Ca. prison system.
I’m pretty sure that up until the murders in 1969 Manson had always done time in Federal prisons.
I know he was at Terminal Isle Federal Prison in LA. If he did have a stolen car from another state…then it’s a federal matter? Crossing state lines. Our boy, Nash, spent about a year there at Terminal, before his health prompted a judge to let him out early. Ed was about to give that place it’s rightful name, if those prison hackjobs had sliced on him.
Another great find John! Interesting to hear that McCourt had a mobile phone kiosk. Was this before or after his stint in prison? Seems things were going pretty good for him at this stage of his life… wonder what happened that caused him to attack his family? Perhaps his brother wasn’t keeping up on his phone payments? 😉 If you’re able to find out the name of his store you’d probably be able to find a his business website on the Way-back Machine…
Indeed. I will try to find out via some searches. When I found that his email address domain was @fredericks.com…. that was interesting and it now jibes with what the guy at Eastern Kentucky said about him. That he loved the ladies. Was he a manager at a Fredericks of Hollywood store? That is their domain name, and his email was something like tmccourt@fredericks.com. That’s where the ladies are, and Tracy was a big fan of the ladies….he could lay on thick (big flirt), as the man said.
By the way John, over at Dawn’s website where somebody posted that they knew Tracy… Farther down in that thread is a gal who says Tracy was married to her best friend. Possible source for more info on Tracy??????!
Oh I saw that too. Yes, I found both of his Kentucky wives on FB, and who I assumed was a daughter. The names matched the background check I did to a T, same town, same exact names etc…but they did not return my messages so I assumed bad blood existed.
Bummer.
These pics are just some images that are “flashed” briefly on screen and found elsewhere from videos and documentaries. Might as well make photos of them and post them on the web. Some show blood. You’ve been warned.
The photo of Nash in his county blues while in the holding pen are from his 1988 arrest when he and Diles were charged with the murders. Diles is beside him, but not shown. There is a black and white, bleached out newsprint photo showing both of them and it is on the blog somewhere.
The news guy reprises his role 23 years later in the 2003 film. I scoured the cast credits but could not find his name. He’s older of course, but that’s him in the movie.
The actor, George Leonardopolous, who plays Tracy McCourt in the film is credited in the cast as playing a character named “Tommy Conway”. That leads me to believe that McCourt did not want to have his name associated with the film. Heck I don’t know. I think it was a little bit of both fearing for his safety and not having his friends deaths glamorized in some movie.
Does anybody know much about Nils Grevilius? He was a cop, I guess, and was involved with Souza and Lange’s book “Four on the Floor”? He is credited in the film as “Weapons Training”.
I’m chasing another interview also. Stay tuned.
I may be off base here but I believe Nils Grevilius was a private investigator. Grevilius collaborated with Lange & Souza on four on the floor. John, it may be worth trying to get in touch with this guy. I would like to see if he had a chance to interview Paul Kelly. Other than Nash himself, Kelly probably knows who the other killer’s were that night. He did after all take the fifth in the Nash trial.
Good idea. I will look into it!
Is there a day to celebrate everything now.
What I do know is that tomorrow is Barbara Easton Richardson’s birthday and this Friday is the 7th anniversary of Tracy McCourt’s passing. It seems just like yesterday when we were running through the fields.
Enjoy the photos~
love the pics!!!!!!!
I love “The Big D” drive-in picture. Back where I grew up, there was a local drive-in called The Dependable Drive Inn. It was strictly 100% porn. They would run a “Johnny Wadd Film Festival” and serve free coffee and donuts at dawn. We always called the place “The Big D”. 😀
Good times! When I turned 11, my older bro and his buddy with a license took me to see some softcore porn at our local drive in. Best birthday ever!! We saw Flesh Gordon and some summer camp T&A flick. Ridiculous! I had to hide in the trunk to get in.
Just myself but I always thought Elizabeth Montgomery who happen be in 1 of the photos was the sharpest woman in Hollywood if not world wide. She just had wonderful face plus body to go with it.. That was photo I not seen of her before.. Too late because of her untimely dead but I sure allow her eat crackers in bed with myself.
She was always my favorite too. A beautiful, talented lady.
Anyone here played Grand Theft Auto 5? With this version of the game they’ve recreated L.A replete with a Laurel Canyon/Hollywood Hills -esque area. I cruised around looking for the Wonderland house but couldn’t find it. LOL!!
No but it sounds awesome if it has that in it. One could easily create a Wonderland video game.
Yes gta 5!!!! Totally think of laurel canyon when cruising the hills!!! It’s a wonderland thing!!! Lol
Special thanks to SteelAddict for sharing this incredible find. This is what he had to say:
Attached is a pic of Tracy not too long before he died. I pulled this from the Colorado prison system inmate locator a few months before he passed. I think he was out of jail when he died though.
Read EVERY post about Tracy that is on this blog – Thanks to Bonnie, you can even take a video drive down Lemp Street, where he was living at the time of the robbery and murders. You can also read his testimony from 1982, see the other places he lived, check his criminal past and of course read about his love life. I simply cannot believe that more authors did not try to track him down for quotes in books and articles. Hell, maybe they did and he told them to get lost. So many questions.
If I’m reading that height chart correctly, Tracy was about 5’7″ tall. When I zoomed in on the original bmp file, I could read his prison ID tag: MCCOURT, then TRACY below it, while the rest was too hard to decipher.
Colorado Prison System. Tracy is about 57 years old here.
Bonus! John Holmes defense attorney, Earl Hansen, in high school:
Oh Lord, I just noticed he’s probably one of those pony tail guys.
What a great find guys! No doubt about it that’s Tracy.. the eyes and nose are a dead giveaway. The whole Wonderland debacle would’ve taken its toll on the guy. He was damn lucky to have had the foresight to hightail it outta there after the money was split.
So this would mean there are prison photos of Eddie Nash floating around too? Betcha there ain’t anyone who visits this blog who wouldn’t want to get a gander at those! 😉
Mr. Sensitive man with a pony tail. ha ha
Great find.
That’s McCourt, has the same eyes. I think Wonderland took its toll on Tracy as well, he looks more like 67. It still amazes me that McCourt & Deverell were still going to rob Nash after Launius and Lind backed out. A prison interview with McCourt right after the movie premier would have been nice. I think Tracy McCourt had a bigger ax to grind with David Lind than Holmes.
If Tracy McCourt was still kickin, he is just a vague enough person to be on Dancin With The Stars, same goes for Dawn and Susan… And most of all Eddie!! And Laurie Holmes.
Well I definitely could see Dawn signing up for DWTS. She could use it as a platform for the E.S.T.E.A.M. effort she promotes.
And team Laurie up with Ron Jeremy. Dancing with the Porn Stars! Unfortunately Susan would not be able to participate since her injuries I am pretty sure preclude her from a dance competition. Eddie could be guest judge on “Empire Night”… each couple dances a routine that fits with one of Eddie’s famous venues like the Seven Seas, Soul’d Out, Kit Kat, Odyssey, etc… I’d tune in and watch that.
Problem is, much like he was cheated out of his cut of the Nash loot, Tracy was largely left on the cutting room floor when the movie was produced. Such a shame too. He could have really added perspective to the story of the planning of the Nash hit.
You can pretty much figure that right after the Wonderland murders, Tracy was crapping his pants and wondering if he was gonna be next. :-O
Indeed! Some great observations about Tracy. The murders were so awful and shocking, that in his testimony, Tracy says he forgot a lot of details because he had to basically push things out of his mind, as to forget, or at best try to forget these horrible images of his friends and their demise. That trauma will leave anyone with a few screws loose.
I saw this post on the forum at Dawn’s blog.
Tracy certainly did live there, and was married twice there in Kentucky. He’s kind of old to be going back to school but that span is when he moved back to KY from California. But, if he was a veteran, he could’ve have swung the GI Bill for free schooling. I just don’t see someone making up a story like this:
“Back in the mid/late 1980s, I was finishing up at Eastern Kentucky University, and we had a guy on our floor who claimed to be Tracy Ray McCourt – and claimed to have been a part of this… Had a bunch of jailhouse tats, including some sort of Beatles thing on his chest (IIRC – might have been a different band). Had a serious rap for the (considerably younger than he was) ladies, and laid it on pretty thick… Could this have been the same guy?
If so… Can’t say as I overly mourn him, but he did make life around him interesting…”
and he did marry girls that were 12-15 years younger than he was… all 3 of his marriages are posted on this blog.
Very true. I don’t think McCourt was too surprised by what happened. If you’ll remember right after the Nash hit McCourt said he went out to the balcony and saw a Lincoln Continental pull up, just like the one at Nash’s place. McCourt said he tried to warn everybody but they were too high to care and he got “really nervous” and left. At least Tracy was smart enough to split!
I like how in the prelim testimony at Holmes trial, David Lind is very articulate and quite intelligent sounding, but 10 years later with the Nash/Diles trials he is a sorry sight, and can barely keep it together, quite emotional, etc. He was carrying some major baggage too, for unlike Tracy, he got a girl killed by his actions. That’s a truckload of guilt to have on your shoulders.
Interesting to see David progress from his high school years as a dude who looked like he would be “accountant of the year”… To a streetwise biker/drug dealing, prostitute hanging badass… To Mort Downey… To an out of control witness… To a broken down drug statistic.
He coulda been a contender. Maybe we’ll see somebody come forward and do a biography of David.
I followed Eddie’s trial back in 90; I wish I had saved those newspapers. Carrying that kind of guilt for nearly ten years wore on Lind, it had to. I honestly believe Lind didn’t care whether he lived or died and that may have explained why he acted the way he did.
John Holmes was also listed in the indictment. They may have been going after Holmes on conspiracy to commit murder, not sure though. It really didn’t make any sense, the guy had been dead for nearly two years.
They added Holmes to the bill simply to be able to file RICO charges. You need 5 accused conspirators (dead or alive) in order to file on RICO.
I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall at these trials. Especially the hung jury at 11-1. Eddie was sweating bullets and was lucky to get out of that scrape. Luckily, a poor young kid was on the jury with a craving for quick cash. She’s not talking to me, so she must know that Eddie is still alive, and she’s scared.
Here’s the 5 conspirators:
Five of Nash’s associates, including two now dead, were named as
unindicted co-conspirators:
* Hovsep Mikaelian, also known as Joe McLean, 49, of North
Hollywood, accused of supervising the storage, distribution and sale of
illicit drugs for Nash. Mikaelian is serving a 14-year federal prison
term on a 1997 conviction for narcotics trafficking, wire fraud and tax
evasion.
* Mikaelian’s brother, Hrant, 45, also of North Hollywood, accused
in the indictment of drug trafficking, wire fraud and money laundering.
He pleaded guilty last year in an unrelated international money
laundering case and is to be sentenced later this year.
* Harry Diramarian, 58, of Pasadena, an accountant who worked for
Nash and the Mikaelians. He was alleged to have been involved in the
drug ring’s money laundering and bribery activities. Diramarian is
awaiting sentencing in an unrelated $600,000 tax evasion scheme.
* Gregory DeWitt Diles, Nash’s 300-pound bodyguard, who was
described in the indictment as a participant in the Laurel Canyon
murders. He died in 1995.
* John Curtis Holmes, a pornographic film star, accused in the
indictment of trafficking drugs and taking part in the killings. Holmes
was tried in the slayings in 1982 and was acquitted. He died in 1988 of
AIDS complications.
Apparently people are still scared of Eddie even though he’s so old. I asked Dawn several questions on FB, about her dad, Susan, etc and she said she can’t answer anything because it wouldn’t be “safe”. Would really love to see someone do a news story on him and try to get an interview. Someone call Dateline!! 😛
From what I understand Eddie slept through most of the trial. Mike Sager said Eddie would go out to the parking lot during recess and pop Quaaludes and his attorneys had to stick him with an ink pen to wake him up.
Attorney: Wake up Ed you’re innocent
Eddie: Huh? What? Oh, that’s great. Hey let me borrow that pen, I need to sign a check for juror number 3
Hell, Phil Spector was pretty much asleep when they sentenced him. Nerves of steel on Nash and Spector,…nerves of steel. (Or lots of Xanax)
I guess Phil’s first trial was a mistrial. That’s the one that featured all of his outlandish hairstyles. For the second time around, I saw in an interview where his lawyer said “Please Phil, limit it to one hairdo this time dude you’re killing it with the jury man!” LOL
This is great! Wish we could’ve had more on McCourt !
John do u know what Tracy was in for at that time?
Drugs and beating up his brother and mom. Actually, I think he stabbed or cut his bro with a knife. Click on that link at the top I shared, it lists his crimes in Colorado. I think he was mostly in there for drugs though. He was busted for forging prescriptions in the 1970s.
I knew Tracy very well while he attended EKU. I was a den mother of sorts to him & his college roomates. He loved to come to our house to be a part of a southern, country style family. When Tracy first spoke of his involvement in the Eddie Nash caper we thought he was really full of it only to find he was telling the truth. He repeatedly landed in jail in Madison County, but was always released to our amazement. I later learned it was because the LA police told Madison Co. to let him go. I guess when they arrested him here & ran his name his record came up which prompted them to contact Orange Co They eventually came to EKU pulled out of class & offered him money & a new identity to testify in the trial against Nash. They flew him & wife Joni out to LA. Put them up during the trial. When it was over he got nothing thye promised him. That was when the family packed up & moved to Colorado. He was always looking over his shoulder & justifiably so, He spoke rarely of the murders, it pained him deeply. He did speak of the ordeal in depth on more then one occasion. I knew the name of his daughter & have been in contact with her. We talked about the movie & I commented on the very small acclaim they gave his character. She replied w/ information that sounded so Tracy McCourt. She told me that her dad couldn’t leave well enough alone & kept buggin’ the crap out of them for more money for his part or information he could give. He called them so much that he pissed them off and cut his recognition of involvement to what we saw on the screen. So typical Tracy never being satisfied, always wanting more. Those of us who knew him here had a genuine fondness for him & his crazy ways. He could be extreme with his desire for drugs & alcohol, but I reckon’ that’s what addicts do.
I used to take him to his grandmother’s house several counties over where I met his family on more then 1 occasion. His mother made stained glass. I saw several beautiful pieces she had made. His grandmother was wonderful!!! His brother was there as well but his name slips my memory. Last time I heard from Tracy was in ’97. He called from Colorado wanting to stop & visit on his way to Florida. He never showed. I wondered about him from time to time. It was only when I made contact w/ his daughter that I learned of his passing. She told me it was HepC. That was no surprise to me. RIP TRACY. LOL He loved to think he looked like Huey Lewis!!!!
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Bobby Heasley 2:28 am on March 2, 2019 Permalink |
Wait wtf? As I’m reading this article, my first thoughts were; ‘ONLY 6 MOS. in jail for SHOOTING A POLICE OFFICER?? How is this possible??’ … Then super quickly my next thoughts were; ‘Wait… Why is he receiving ANY jail time at all? If the police officer “accidentally discharged” his own weapon, why was he being charged with ANY crime at all?? (fraud, forgery not withstanding obv.)’
This case, the people attached to it and even the Wonderland home itself has so many twist and subplots and best of all… fascinating stories and the stories never end. And the crazy thing is (aside from the speculation of Launius being involved in at least 28 murders) most of the stories seem to have some hint of truth to them.
Bobby H.
localarts 11:11 am on March 4, 2019 Permalink |
For many years I was highly skeptical of the 28 murders Launius was reportedly involved in. Even going so far as to question Roger Jacobs credibility…..I WAS WRONG. Susan Launius told Nils Grevillius that in fact the story about Mexican drug deal / double cross ( Lainius killing her captors ) is true. Tracy McCourt said “Ron is on a whole different level, he kill’s people” And finally, Tom Lange said Ron Launius was a contract killer. If Ron Launius was a contract killer, who sought out his services? The mafia? Just imagine hiring Ron Launius to run a debt collection company!
Bobby Heasley 1:21 pm on March 4, 2019 Permalink
I imagine Ron would have been terrible at it… You can’t collect from someone if they’re dead. If I had to pick 1 member from the wonderland gang to collect a debt on my behalf – no question I’m picking David Lind. In my opinion, Lind was a beast. I’ve read that he could scare the #!*% out of someone just by giving them a look.
My next pick would be Billy and Joy, but only if they collected together, as a team.
criticextraordinaire 6:52 pm on March 9, 2019 Permalink
I think 28 was the tip of the iceberg. Who knows how many people he blew away down in México. He was really pissed.
Patrick Engeleiter 6:26 am on June 12, 2019 Permalink
I have a good source from the LA Police Dept that Bill and Joy were under surveillance from 6am to 8pm every day. The LA Police came on to Ron Launius by accident watching the house. Ron was known to the Sacramento Police more than LA. The only reason nobody was watching the house when the murders took place Is the drug informants convinced the detectives on the case no heroin sales happened after 7-8pm. Heroin buys get their fix every morning and most heroin dealers close shop by 7-8pm. Most of Joy’s business had become primarily heroin by 1981 mostly due to her and Bills addiction. Everyone in the house was addicted to heroin. The coke was a side venture or party drug. Wonderland drive is extremely narrow and two cars can’t even pass on the street. My understanding is most people would park and walk up the hill to their house. Now they had parties but not like it has been reported and the last few months prior to the murders I believe it had calmed down. They all knew they were being watched. Everyone in the house had pending cases and was looking at Jail time. The reason they didn’t split after the crime is the pending cases. In fact we all know Ron was due in court the morning his body was found. It is possible they thought they had time to get out of Dodge, that is why they were still at the house. I don’t think any of the gang ever thought John would sell them out as he would be putting his own life in danger, why would he do that? They never thought John would be dumb enough to call Eddie or be so dumb as to be caught with jewelry on his person. He could have denied involvement had he used his acting skills and not let on or admit involvement. We still don’t know exactly what led Eddie to John and the wonderland gang but I believe it had more to do with the guns and a comment Ron had made during the robbery about “finally taking his guns home”. I believe that is what initially put Ed on John and from there they knew John could not stand up to any interrogation and would tell them everything. That blew their cover, they would have been better off killing everyone including John and Tracy. Ron knew deep inside himself it would be John or Tracy who would fold if there ever was any questions. It just shows you how clouded everyone’s judgement had become. Their addiction overcame any reasonable judgment they had as good criminals. This robbery was supposed to be everyone’s ticket out of the life but it ended up taking their lives instead.
criticextraordinaire 12:39 pm on October 13, 2019 Permalink
Well Tracy is the guy who proved to be the real survivor in this story, and he managed to keep his mouth shut.
dirtboy068 10:16 pm on March 13, 2019 Permalink |
my thoughts as well. Wtf, and then why was he charged at all. talk about crazy
localarts 2:49 pm on March 4, 2019 Permalink |
I agree. David Lind would be perfect debt collector. He was after all a bounty hunter. One has to wonder just how connected Launius was to underworld figures. Of those 28, how manny were committed between 78-81? Maybe John can get his family to open up.
Mirko 7:22 am on March 5, 2019 Permalink |
Hi John, I came across this podcast on YouTube. Did you know the story between 26.00 and 27.00? Just curious…
Mirko 7:23 am on March 5, 2019 Permalink |
John 9:56 am on March 8, 2019 Permalink |
No Mirko, what is it?
Mirko 3:30 am on March 10, 2019 Permalink
Localarts 11:21 am on March 10, 2019 Permalink |
Critic, why do you believe 28 is just scratching the surface? Ted Bundy admitted to 30 before he was executed but many believe it was over 100. Clearly, both men were psychopaths and murdered for different reasons. It would be interesting to know where Roger Jacobs got his info as it relates to Launius.
Bobby Heasley 11:54 am on March 10, 2019 Permalink |
I still think its highly unlikely that Ron, a full-blown heroin addict, would be capable of working as a hit-man and be able to get away with 28+ murders without first getting himself killed or caught. I’ve never been a hit-man and I’ve never tried heroin, so maybe I’m wrong and just don’t know? But I don’t think so
Localarts 8:08 pm on March 10, 2019 Permalink |
There’s a lot of mystery surrounding Ron Launius simply because very little is known about him. You hear all these crazy stories which may or may not be true. Tom Lange said Launius was a contract killer and Tom Lange has a lot of credibility. One thing I do know for 100% absolute certainly, had Ron Launius survived that night he would have killed John Holmes free of charge, No contract needed!
Bobby Heasley 6:22 am on March 18, 2019 Permalink
David Lind & Tracy McCourt had 7 years to get their revenge on John Holmes, yet they did nothing and John Holmes was a very touchable man – he was not in any protection program, he didn’t go in to hiding… he had no bodyguards, no security and he didn’t move a large crew to help protect him – and yet, he remained untouched until passing away from AIDS 7 years later.
I don’t think the wonderland gang was as tough or connected as people today make them out to be. I think that these guys were nothing more than every other drug dealer I’ve ever met… tough talking with an extra $80 bucks in their pocket.
Eddie Nash on the other hand . . . It took him less than 2 days after the robbery to find and have John Holmes brought to him. The wonderland gang was nothing even close to being in the same league of criminals that Eddie Nash belonged to.
So, what would Ron Launius had done IF he survived that night… I don’t think he would have done anything.
Patrick Engeleiter 5:52 am on June 12, 2019 Permalink
Where did all the info on Launius come from? Who originally had the Launius story about Mexico? Was it Roger Jacobs and if so does he cite any sources in his book “long time money?” The other stories about Ron either came from Susan or Larry Herschmann aka Cherokee. I wish I would have spoken to Larry before he passed away. I had a line on several good interviews for a documentary and my three biggest interviews died, Larry and two others that knew Eddie very well. I would like to do a documentary and come back to LA to interview some people who were close to the case and get the exact list of who committed these murders. At this point we know 3 of the 4 or 5 who went into the house are dead, both Diles brothers and John. There is one more and It could be the so called Israeli God Father but I think he was too soft to take part in any murders. It had to be one of Greg or Sam’s boys. I believe there is one person still out there who was in that house that night. I am raising money to do a documentary and the first thing I am doing is going to the neighborhood where Greg grew up to find some of his friends. I’m sure some people are still in his old neighborhood who knew Greg well. Anyone who wants to invest will be listed as a producer. Please contact me if interested. I am hiring a film crew and I believe if we do a good documentary with good interviews we can sell to Netflix or one of the current crime channels. I found a local film crew and want to start interviews in August in LA. Contact me if anyone is interested. I have some info on Paul Kelly and where he grew up, I am still looking for people who worked with Bill Vlick. At this point all crimes are past prosecutable time. I was about to fly to Vegas to interview Bill Vlick at his nursing home in Vegas and he passed away. Bill has no funeral and nobody ever visited him or picked up his possessions. In fact he had a trust from his longtime girlfriend Rose McKee. Anyone with info on the Diles brothers, Paul Kelly, Ed, et al please contact me. I have two people close to Ed i am speaking with this week. John I would love to collaborate with you in some capacity as you are the leader on this subject. We need a film on this case that seriously puts together who committed the crime and I believe the last person in that room is still alive. However it is possible that person was some crony or LA gangbanger that Greg and Same knew but I believe it was someone close to Ed and Greg as Ed was too smart to send anyone not close to him or Greg. Please contact me if anyone has info-message/text me 414-306-1667. Thank you.
dirtboy068 10:20 pm on March 13, 2019 Permalink |
I’m with you on this. A drug addict getting away with alot of murders,even in that time period I think would be highly unlikely.
Cupcake1083 1:48 pm on March 10, 2020 Permalink |
As someone who was addicted to heroin i can tell u it’s definitely possible that he could’ve been a hitman and an addict. What alot of people don’t understand is heroin isn’t a party drug. Basically when you’re addicted u spend a ton of money to be normal. U only take it 2 avoid being sick. So most of the time you’re totally normal. And as I said it takes ALOT of money so u basically will do anything u have 2 for cash. Seems 2 me being a hit man was a perfect solution 4 a dude like Ron. It’s not really a tough job physically and its usually a good chunk of cash for something that takes a few minutes 2 do. Anyway he seemed like a mean tough guy definitely not the type 2 feel guilty afterwards.
dirtboy068 10:12 pm on March 13, 2019 Permalink |
Hi. I’m knew to the blog and wanted to say hi to everyone. After watching Wonderland ( one of my all time favorites) naturally I became fascinated by the whole unbelievable story. It’s something about the time in America, that Hollywood nights, the seeded underbelly of cocaine, and the effect it was starting to on society, that I can’t get enough of. I just read the autobiography ” High Concept” about Hollywood executive Don Simpson. Amazing read, highly recommend. How to see more post in the future and replies!!!!
John 2:09 pm on March 18, 2019 Permalink |
Hi man, thanks and glad you found us. I am going to order that Don Simpson book asap. I have always found his story do crazy
Localarts 6:32 pm on March 15, 2019 Permalink |
Never heard that one, Mirko. Can’t say I’m surprised though.
Mirko 6:55 am on March 25, 2019 Permalink |
Ok, thanks anyway
Localarts 1:09 pm on March 19, 2019 Permalink |
Bobby, I had the same mindset as you when I first read Roger Jacobs book “Long Time Money & Lot’s of Cocaine” back in 05. It sounded to outlandish. Like it was fabricated in order to “sensationalize” Ron Launius into something more than he really was. You’re right. Most every body else at Wonderland were nothing more than drug dealers and thieves. However, with everything we know now from his ex wife, detectives, David Lind, McCourt & Ton Lange, all the evidence suggests Launius was a killer. His body count is debatable but the general concensus is everybody was afraid of Ron Launius for a reason. You can draw your own conclusion but for me there’s too many credible sources that say otherwise.
I think its kind of obvious David Lind was on the short list of people that want Holmes dead. Lind was not a dumb man. I’m sure David Lind knew he would be one of the first suspects police would look to had something happened to Holmes.
Bobby Heasley 5:51 pm on March 19, 2019 Permalink |
Okay, how about this quesion:
If the wonderland gang had killed Nash & Diles during the robbery (not doing that was their 2nd biggest mistake) what do you think would have ended up happening to the members of the gang?
1. They don’t move to Hawaii, they don’t move period. They just sit around and get high off the Nash’s stash, sell a little to pay rent and make ends meet … until…
2. John Holmes, for obvious reasons becomes a suspect in the “drug deal gone wrong double murder” (the media would have surely jumped on and ran with the ‘drug deal gone wrong’ headlines – they’ll correct it with barely a footnote once the facts completely surface, and some media outlets won’t correct it at all).
3. Holmes foldes, snitches on his crew and cuts a deal to save himself… goes into the witness protection program.
3a. Less than 1 year later, missing the attention of the spotlight, Holmes returns to porn and leaves the witness protection prgram. He dies from complications due to AIDS in 1988.
4. Launius recieves the death penalty after being convicted. He dies in 1992 (liver failure) before the execution can be carried out.
4a. Lind & Deverall are found guilty and receive life in prison – Lind appeals and due to his previous work as a law enforcement snitch, recieves an 18 to life sentence WITH the possibility of early parole….they both die in prison – Billy from old age, Lind at the hands of fellow inmates (albeit under mysterious circumstancea)
4b. Barbara and Joy are charged as being accessories to murder –
Joy pleads guilty, her ex-husband acting as her lawyer negotiates a 7 year sentence… for medical reasons (cancer) she’s released to home confinement 18 months later, dies in 1989.
Barbara is found NOT guilty! She never folds, she never breaks.. she is released from custody, meets another man and lives the rest her life raising her children in relative anonymity.
4c. Susan Launius is found guilty of being an accessory to murder after the fact… recieves a 5 year sentence. released from prison 2 1/2 years later in excellent health.
5. Eddie Nash – his legacy builds and over time, Nash comes to be seen as one of the biggest organized crime bosses in modern history – in 1998 “inside sources” leak out infornation suspecting Nash of ordering 28 murders between 1964 thru 1978
5a. Greg Diles legacy remains the same for a while, but eventually gets lost in the pages of history. In the movie, his character is played by Bruce Willis.
Localarts 12:48 pm on March 21, 2019 Permalink |
That’s a lot of speculation Bobby. What we do know to be as close to the facts as possible is: Launius was going to kill both Nash & Diles however, Deverell and Lind talked him out of it. Deverell also talked Launius out of killing the maid during the robbery of the pet store owner who owned the antique guns. Had Launius killed Nash & Diles as he intended to I’m sure any witness would have been killed as well once the heat came down.
Suleiman Hodali 8:05 am on April 25, 2019 Permalink |
hey bobby where did you locate this information that, “in 1998 “inside sources” leak out infornation suspecting Nash of ordering 28 murders between 1964 thru 1978” ? Curious where this was published. thanks
Bobby Heasley 1:42 pm on March 21, 2019 Permalink |
All witnesses? Are you sure about that?
What about the girls? All three of them (Barbara, Joy & Susan) would have had basic knowledge of the robbery and who the victim was. Barbara & Joy (unsure of Susan) helped the guys with planning the robbery… or at the very least plans were made and names were talked about in front of the girls.
Even if they don’t tell the girls that they killed Nash & Diles, it’s going to be a MAJOR news story carried by every outlet… they’re going to find out. At that point, all it take is one pissed-off and scorned girlfriend who wants to get even to walk into a police station… and, well… start getting even.
I guess the conclusion that I’m coming to is that… either way, or anyway you look at it… these guys were f#$*! after robbing Nash. I don’t see any way out for the wonderland gang.
If they kill Nash & Diles, they’d soon be caught and more than likely spend the rest of their lives in prison…
If they let them both live… well, I don’t even need to speculate on that one.
Anyways, I find this story to be very interesting. Especially since I’ve lived my entire life less than 10 minute’s from both the wonderland home and Nash’s house… and I have either been to or driven by almost every location written about about on this blog.
I just wanted to try and spark some cnversation up on this blog. again.
Localarts 4:20 pm on March 21, 2019 Permalink |
Yes, it is a fascinating story. That’s cool you live close to all the infamous places mentioned on this blog. I still have my original copy of the Rolling Stone issue ” The Devil and John Holmes” from 1989. That was the first time I ever heard about Wonderland as we know it. I agree. The shit would have hit the fan either way. Launius would have died in prison, I’m almost certain of it. Things have slowed down a bit over the last year or so only because there has been so much info shared there’s not a lot to write about. John is however writing a book of his own about Wonderland and trying to interview the Launius family. Let’s all hope he successful!!
donjuan951 2:54 am on June 4, 2020 Permalink |
Hi Bobby do you still live close to the areas? I’m in Riverside but I travel there as often as I can.
Bobby 11:36 pm on August 23, 2020 Permalink
Yes. I live in Burbank.
Localarts 6:12 pm on June 30, 2019 Permalink |
I doubt there were any heroine sales at Wonderland. Tracy McCourt testified that “China White” was very hard to come by. That was more or less the whole premise for pawning the antique guns to Nash in the first place. Any available heroine at 8763 was probable for personal use. Its anyones guess where Roger Jacobs obtained his info on Ron Launius as it relates to the Mexican double cross.
Nils Grevillius said Susan Launius told him in fact it did happen. A sit down interview with Susan Launius would be worth the cost of admission.
criticextraordinaire 11:12 am on July 13, 2019 Permalink |
Ronnie would not have been dumb enough to keep a huge stash of drugs at his place, because that would have made him a target for people who rip off drug dealers (which was one of his lines of business). The big stash was elsewhere, with only enough stuff at the house to party.
Note that when the Gang died, none of the loot from the Nash job was there. It might still be squirreled away somewhere for all we know.
Bobby Heasley 12:02 pm on July 13, 2019 Permalink
Ronnie would have DEFINITELY been dumb enough to keep a huge stash of drugs at his place. People please… Don’t buy into this “he was smart” nonsense. Because it’s just not true. I have yet to come across one smart thing this guy ever did.
And no bedlam at that house that night. I’m sorry to ruin the mythological idea you may have of Ron Launius but the truth is he died in bed. He was beaten to death with not even so much as a single defensive wound on his body. Even worst, he put his wife in danger and kept her in danger KNOWING that the danger was all to real. THAT IS NOT SMART!
As far as what happened to the stash from the robbery? Who cares at this point? Whether it was fenced or stashed elsewhere, it doesn’t matter. These guys were like Pinky and the Brain… Except all of them WERE PINKY!! Jeesh.
criticextraordinaire 2:24 pm on July 14, 2019 Permalink
Well if he was so dumb, how could he have outwitted the cops involving somewhere around 27 or so murders (not counting the Méxican deal)? True, on occasion he did some ill advised things… His ego wrote a check that his backside could not cash when he took on Eddie Nash. But when you’re one of the biggest coke distributors in the business, ego is part of the game.
Cops hated him and for one reason… they usually could not pin anything on him.
Bobby Heasley 3:15 pm on July 14, 2019 Permalink
Because he did not kill 27 people and he did NOT outwit the cops. After stupidly getting caught smuggling heroin inside the bodies of his fellow Marines and thereby getting thrown out of the Marines, he spent more time in prison than he did on the streets.
criticextraordinaire 7:23 pm on July 15, 2019 Permalink
Sergeant Beder Clifton was the cop who observed that Launius was “the coldest person I have ever met in my life”. You don’t get a reputation like that with the Sacramento cops for soaking your hands in Ivory Liquid all day long.
When word got out that Ronnie died, one cop commented “They won’t need many pallbearers.” When asked to elaborate, he went on to say “Because a trash can only has two handles.”
Ronnie earned this sort of enmity because he usually got the better of the cops. Behind their facade of disdain for Ronnie was probably a modicum of professional respect.
Bobby Heasley 2:48 am on July 16, 2019 Permalink
I agree with you 100% … Ron Launius was great @ being violent. He was a bully and heroin junkie who was really good at robbing people and hurting people. No more, no less. And make no mistake he would have robbed you, or me or anybody else if all that stood between him and getting high was to do so.
But, he was not smart. If he was dumb enough to keep his wife in that house, knowing the danger was all too real… He would have been dumb enough to keep drugs in the house.
For God’s sake, he TRUSTED John Holmes!?!? If you watch the interviews about Holmes in that documentary, even the dumbest – most bimbo and airheaded of pornstars knew not to trust John Holmes… none of them would have given that robbery plan a second thought. Not if it was John’s idea.
Again, the only people in this story that I lend any credence to are the detectives who worked the case. And I can guarantee you critic, if you had the chance to ask one of the detectives about Ron Launius… intelligent would not be a word we would use to describe him.
Jim 10:19 am on September 26, 2019 Permalink
They were selling it off their balcony, where else would it be. Lol
Bobby Heasley 2:00 am on July 1, 2019 Permalink |
Even if Susan Launius agreed to do an interview, I don’t think you could put absolute trust in her to tell the truth… Every person involved with the Wonderland crew were known liars, there are no exceptions to that fact and Susan Launius was definitely involved with them. Being a victim doesn’t automatically make you a good person. It sucks what happened to her, for sure, but lets not forgot the web of people that she surrounded herself with and allowed in her life… You are the company you keep.
Localarts 3:09 pm on July 1, 2019 Permalink |
Well, I would never consider Susan part of the “wonderland gang” as we know it. Her only association was her obvious marriage to Launius. I think she was the only one who didn’t have a police record, that doesn’t mean she was an angel either. If this were 1981, you’re probably right. I doubt she would be very forthcoming. But its 2019 and everybody we know to be associated with Wonderland is dead. I can’t imagine why Susan would try to hide anything about Ronnie at this point in her life. Although I’ve been wrong before, lol.
criticextraordinaire 11:17 am on July 13, 2019 Permalink
Susan should approach somebody in Hollywood, and sell the rights to Ronnie’s life story. It could be an epic film… not unlike the arc of the movie “Scarface”. She could get a pretty good stipend from it. I’d pay good money to watch that movie, if only to see how the Mexican deal played out.
With a similar ending. Like Tony Montana, Ronnie ends up deceased. But he goes down fighting in a blaze of retaliation. It must have been bedlam at 8763 when Nash’s crew showed up.
Bobby Heasley 11:32 am on July 13, 2019 Permalink
You’re right critic… she should. If only she had Hollywood’s contact info. Lolzies
Bobby Heasley 3:18 am on July 2, 2019 Permalink |
I agree, I don’t think Susan would try to hide anything either… The point I’m trying to make is that if she ever comes out with wild stories about being kidnapped by Mexican drug dealers and saved by Ronnie who happened to kill 8 Mexicans in the rescue attempt… We might all be foolish to believe her.
Localarts 11:02 am on July 2, 2019 Permalink |
This paticular account ( Mexico shoot out ) or whatever label you want to call it, has been reported by two separate sources. As the old saying goes.. “There are two sides to every story and then there’s the truth” If it is true, I can’t think of anyone who would have been more qualified to be in charge of border security than Ron Launius.
Localarts 4:22 pm on July 2, 2019 Permalink
By the way Bobby, to my knowledge Susan Launius has never came forward or volunteered any information about Ronnie. Most of the background on Ron Launius has been through state or federal investigations. Over the years, most of that has filtered down to the general public. His immeadiate family refuses to discuss anything about him.
Bobby Heasley 7:28 pm on July 2, 2019 Permalink
Actually, Im going off information that you previously wrote about back in March of this year…
You said: “Susan Launius told Nils Grevillius that in fact the story about Mexican drug deal / double cross was true” and I’m not saying it’s not true, I’m just saying I have a hard time believing anybody who had anything to do with the Wonderland crew… Including Susan Launius. The only people in this story that I lend any credence to and can believe are the detectives and the police who worked on this case.
Bobby Heasley 7:30 pm on July 2, 2019 Permalink
Actually, the saying goes “there are 3 sides to every story… His side, her side and the truth”
Bobby Heasley 7:34 pm on July 2, 2019 Permalink
Where do the lies end and the truth begin? In this case, with these type of people, it’s impossible to ever be able to know the truth.
Localarts 6:54 am on July 3, 2019 Permalink |
That is correct. John scored an excellent interview with Nils which can be found on this blog. That is the content that I referenced back in March. It represents one piece of the Ron Launius puzzle. Whether or not Mexico blood bath ever took place, I think we can both agree he was a very dangerous individual.
localarts 8:12 pm on July 14, 2019 Permalink |
Bobby, I know this may come as somewhat of a shock but Ron Launius was honorably discharged from the USAF.
localarts 8:31 pm on July 14, 2019 Permalink |
I’m with Critic. I would be willing to break the bank if a full length motion picture about Ron Launius made it to the big screen. I think Josh Lucas should resurrect his role if the opportunity presented itself.
Bobby Heasley 8:55 pm on July 14, 2019 Permalink |
That’s NOT TRUE… Ron Launius was dishonorably discharged in 1972 from the USAF for smuggling heroin back to the States in the coffins of dead soldiers.
Here are my sources and I have plenty more if you continue to need more proof:
https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/632128/ron-launius-of-the-wonderland-gang-is-now-connected-the-tree
https://raccawel.ml/2183988-ron-launius-air-force.aspx
Patrick Engeleiter 12:10 am on July 22, 2019 Permalink |
John could you tell me more about Eddie’s connection with Milwaukee, WI? Does he have relatives still here? Daughter? Would like to interview her very much. Thanks John.
criticextraordinaire 5:02 am on August 8, 2019 Permalink |
Remembering John Holmes, film king of the 1970s, here on his birthday, August 8th.
If he were still with us, he’d be 75 years old and a huge internet sensation. Probably would have his own cable channel too. “All Johnny Wadd, all the time. 24/7/365.”
localarts 6:59 pm on August 8, 2019 Permalink |
That’s most likely true. Although, Bob Chinn would have something to say about that since he probably owns the rights to the “Johnny Wadd ” franchise.
criticextraordinaire 6:47 pm on August 9, 2019 Permalink
I’m sure that John would of course cut Chinn in on.a piece of the action.
criticextraordinaire 5:33 am on August 21, 2019 Permalink |
I just saw that there is a new Rambo movie coming out, Rambo: Last Blood. The premise is that Rambo goes into Mexico to rescue the daughter of one of his old army buddies.
Word on the street is that this story is based on Ronnie Launius’ real-life situation when he had to rescue his wife from the Mexican drug dealers. Has anybody here heard anything about this?
Excellent casting. If you’re gonna have somebody portray a vengeant Ronnie Launius, who better than John Rambo? Although I suspect that Rambo will not stop at snuffing just 9 kidnappers.
localarts 9:55 am on August 23, 2019 Permalink |
I kinda doubt Last Blood is based on the Mexican double cross involving Launius but you never know.. An accurate documentary / movie about Ronnie seems remote.
Bobby Heasley 12:02 am on August 24, 2019 Permalink |
Word on the street? Lol … Who’s word would that be??
criticextraordinaire 6:29 pm on August 24, 2019 Permalink |
The street. People are talking. The similarities between this new Rambo installment and Ronnie’s Mexican caper are astounding.
Bobby Heasley 7:32 pm on August 24, 2019 Permalink
Oh, gotcha
Jim 1:26 am on September 25, 2019 Permalink
New Rambo movie based on Launius Mexico caper. LOL LMFAO
Kdimmick 9:59 pm on October 7, 2019 Permalink
Hey Critic…….you still around?
criticextraordinaire 12:25 pm on October 13, 2019 Permalink
Hey there kdimmick. Yep, I am still around. Always checking in to hear if there is anything new re: Wonderland or John Holmes.
Micahel Hughes 9:16 pm on March 3, 2020 Permalink
movie isn’t anywhere close to Mexico . not one similarity at all. incredible. Word on the street ? what street
localarts 9:06 pm on September 25, 2019 Permalink |
A fact based documentary about Ron Launius is a must. Unfortunately, I’m not sure we will ever get to that point.. It would certainly confirm or debunk a lot of this craziness.
criticextraordinaire 12:30 pm on October 13, 2019 Permalink |
I probably sound like a broken record here, but I see the possibility of an epic flick based on Ronnie’s life. Kinda like the arc of the movie about Jimmy Hoffa.
Story would start with his humble beginnings, to his service in ‘Nam, to his career in the drug trade. Like “Hoffa” it ends due to unwisely pissing off the wrong organized crime figures.
I also think a proper biopic about John Holmes would pack the movie houses. Wonderland was good, but it only focused on a narrow point in time.
localarts 4:31 pm on October 17, 2019 Permalink
Could there ever be a supporting cast worthy enough to be mentioned in the same breath as Ron Launius? Who would play the members of the outlaw motorcycle gang? Susan Launius, Sheriff Bedder Clifton, The two bank tellers and armored car employees ( according to Roger Jacobs Launius made it back across the border and robbed two banks and a armored car to procure the ransom for Susan’s release. Thats just the tip of the iceberg. You still have the 27 murder victims, Ronnies immediate family, etc. Kim Kardashian as Susan Launius.. maybe?
criticextraordinaire 9:37 pm on October 17, 2019 Permalink
Well Mark Paul Gossalaar as Ronnie. Sophia Bush as Susan. Brian Dennehey as Bill Amerson. How are those for starters.
C Floyd 7:30 pm on October 18, 2019 Permalink |
I know im a little bit late but Patrick Engeleiter heroin addicts use MORE THAN ONE TIME IN THE WHOLE DAY. In one week ill have SEVEN YEARS CLEAN from iv heroin. Im close to six months sober from alcohol but UNFORTUNATELY I know all about Iv drugs, especially Heroin smh . In my day, ya used AS SOON as u woke up! Before you PISSED IN THE MORNING, YOU SHOT HEROIN. In the next 4-6 hours, you’re getting “high” AGAIN. SO yes as an addict YOU’RE SEEING YOUR DEALER EARLY IN THE MORNING. But you’re ALSO GONNA SEE HIM AGAIN IN A FEW HOURS!. So the whole statement about the times joy & bill were being “watched” IMO IS BS. Heroin dealers DEAL ALL NIGHT. Its NOT “over” by 8pm! Heroin addicts USE ALL DAY AND NIGHT! They’re PHYSICALLY “SICK” So 1981 vs 2008 isnt much different. Your “source ” about heroin is BS!. Tbey use all DAY EVERY DAY. Just sayint……..
localarts 2:20 pm on October 19, 2019 Permalink |
I like it. Not sure about Gossalaar as Ronnie though. I though Josh Lucas did a fine job in Wonderland. Sam Elliot as sheriff Bedder Clifton. Christopher Daniel Barnes ( Brady Bunch movie) as Holmes.
Kdimmick 7:00 pm on October 19, 2019 Permalink |
Yes Critic,I really do miss the old days at the IMDB board.
Glad to see that 4 on the floor finally made it to print. Found out about it here actually. Bought it. The part in the book I liked the best was the part where immediately after the robbery Greg Diles went next door told the kid there about the robbery and then asked to use their phone…Lol
criticextraordinaire 6:15 pm on October 20, 2019 Permalink |
If he were not in jail for the next 24 years, Suge Knight would make a great Gregory Diles.
Kdimmick 8:10 pm on October 20, 2019 Permalink
Yes he would!
localarts 10:44 am on October 26, 2019 Permalink |
Kdimmick, if you’re not aware of the Wonderland Podcast by Hollywood & Crime it’s worth listening to. If you enjoyed Four on the Floor, you’ll love the interview they did with Lange & Souza. It’s outstanding!
Link: https://wondery.com/shows/wonderland-murders/#
Mission 10:49 pm on March 14, 2020 Permalink |
red
Criticextraordinaire 5:32 pm on April 17, 2020 Permalink |
Just saw that Brian Dennehy died. He was my pick to portray Bill Amerson in “Wonderland II’.
Back to the casting calls…
Terrace 12:40 am on May 7, 2020 Permalink |
program
Anon4Now 10:58 pm on May 30, 2020 Permalink |
Just curious: Has anyone done any DNA ethnicity tests on any of David Lind’s relatives? Like the tests they give at Ancestry.com, Family Tree DNA, or their like? Or on any of David’s remains, like baby teeth or any hair still with follicles? That’d be in an old hairbrush or the like.
Anyone know?
localarts 10:39 am on June 18, 2020 Permalink |
Profiles In Eccentricity has an interesting discussion on Holmes, Nash & The Wonderland Murders. The conversation starts at 26:12 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uz5md66du-c&t=4321s